OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)

7 Nov 2003 - 6:56pm
10 years ago
7 replies
521 reads
Andy Watson
2004

My apologies if I mess this up. Its rather difficult for me to use email
to access discussion forums.

I'm a bit of an object purist, so I'm interested in learning all about
UI from this point of view.

I used to like working with the OS/2 workplace shell, and also with stuff
such as OpenDoc and SOM (system object model).

I also used to like working with Word Perfect 5 back in the old DOS days
(for those that don't know it. It was a word processor that when fired
up, presented the user with a plain blue screen with no menus or any other
visible clutter. You just started typing what you wanted).

I also have a strong dislike for menus and toolbars on applications. For
example. I'm using Outlook to type this email. The top 1/3 of the screen
is covered in menus, toolbars and entry fields. Apart from the To and
Subject fields. I don't think I have ever used any of the other stuff.

Its the same with web pages. There is all this clutter all over the place.
My mouse has a back and forward button, I right click and use the context
menus anyhow. And my keyboard has a favourites button at the top for when I
have to go to a site I already know about.

So I'm kind of wondering, are most UIs as object oriented as they claim
they are. And, if they are object oriented. Why does all that clutter
on the screen need to exist.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesign
ers.com]On Behalf Of Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2003 8:26 a.m.
To: Interaction Designers Discussion
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)

Looks like my original posting in HTML format didn't come through. This is
my first post, so I'll try plain text.

RE: OOUIs - Object-Oriented User Interfaces

As they say, "Well...that's a deep subject." I wrote a book on OOUIs quite
a while ago, titled, "The Gui-Ooui War: Windows Vs. OS/2: The Designer's
Guide to Human-Computer Interfaces" (VNR, 1995). The book is now out of
print, but Amazon.com has a used one for sale. It covers OOUIs in great
depth. My later book, "The Elements of User Inteface Design" (Wiley, 1997)
also covers OOUIs in depth.

So, for purposes of this discussion list, what are you interested in?

Regards,
Theo
_______________________
Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
e-mail: theo at theomandel.com
web: www.theomandel.com

------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:18:14 -0500
From: "David Heller" <dave at interactiondesigners.com>
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)
To: discuss at interactiondesigners.com

I was just wondering if anyone had done any work on Object Oriented
interfaces and if so, what their thoughts are on the subject.
-- Andy Watson

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discuss at interactiondesigners.com
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to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
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Comments

10 Nov 2003 - 6:33am
Narey, Kevin
2004

>So I'm kind of wondering, are most UIs as object oriented as they claim
>they are. And, if they are object oriented. Why does all that clutter
>on the screen need to exist.

Interesting thoughts, but is any UI truly 'object oriented'? If so I would
be interested in seeing the result.

Separating the content from the logic is becoming a common paradigm in
software development. However, there is an intrinsic link to the middleware
and presentation layer and although content is generated from designed
objects in the middleware layer, the UI design is based on more Human
factors and doesn't relate well to those middleware objects.

On the matter of clutter.....I see 'clutter' as a purely subjective
viewpoint and down to the individual user.
As experienced users, we may only use send and receive as buttons in
outlook, but that's our choice. Other less experienced users may well only
feel comfortable using the other graphical elements available to them as a
UI. It has to be a compromise where the potential user base is broad and
unspecific.

Most good UI's allow you to remove your 'clutter' to achieve a more
'advanced user target' layout. I often press F11 in IE to go full screen,
eliminate the top menu bar and use the keyboard to navigate. At least I
don't have to use a command line to do that.

KN

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Watson [mailto:awatson at attglobal.net]
Sent: 07 November 2003 23:56
To: Interaction Designers Discussion
Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)

My apologies if I mess this up. Its rather difficult for me to use email
to access discussion forums.

I'm a bit of an object purist, so I'm interested in learning all about
UI from this point of view.

I used to like working with the OS/2 workplace shell, and also with stuff
such as OpenDoc and SOM (system object model).

I also used to like working with Word Perfect 5 back in the old DOS days
(for those that don't know it. It was a word processor that when fired
up, presented the user with a plain blue screen with no menus or any other
visible clutter. You just started typing what you wanted).

I also have a strong dislike for menus and toolbars on applications. For
example. I'm using Outlook to type this email. The top 1/3 of the screen
is covered in menus, toolbars and entry fields. Apart from the To and
Subject fields. I don't think I have ever used any of the other stuff.

Its the same with web pages. There is all this clutter all over the place.
My mouse has a back and forward button, I right click and use the context
menus anyhow. And my keyboard has a favourites button at the top for when I
have to go to a site I already know about.

So I'm kind of wondering, are most UIs as object oriented as they claim
they are. And, if they are object oriented. Why does all that clutter
on the screen need to exist.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesign
ers.com]On Behalf Of Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2003 8:26 a.m.
To: Interaction Designers Discussion
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)

Looks like my original posting in HTML format didn't come through. This is
my first post, so I'll try plain text.

RE: OOUIs - Object-Oriented User Interfaces

As they say, "Well...that's a deep subject." I wrote a book on OOUIs quite
a while ago, titled, "The Gui-Ooui War: Windows Vs. OS/2: The Designer's
Guide to Human-Computer Interfaces" (VNR, 1995). The book is now out of
print, but Amazon.com has a used one for sale. It covers OOUIs in great
depth. My later book, "The Elements of User Inteface Design" (Wiley, 1997)
also covers OOUIs in depth.

So, for purposes of this discussion list, what are you interested in?

Regards,
Theo
_______________________
Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
e-mail: theo at theomandel.com
web: www.theomandel.com

------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:18:14 -0500
From: "David Heller" <dave at interactiondesigners.com>
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)
To: discuss at interactiondesigners.com

I was just wondering if anyone had done any work on Object Oriented
interfaces and if so, what their thoughts are on the subject.
-- Andy Watson

_______________________________________________
Interaction Design Discussion List
discuss at interactiondesigners.com
--
to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
http://discuss.interactiondesigners.com
--
Questions: lists at interactiondesigners.com
--
Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements already)
http://interactiondesigners.com/announceList/
--
http://interactiondesigners.com/

_______________________________________________
Interaction Design Discussion List
discuss at interactiondesigners.com
--
to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
http://discuss.interactiondesigners.com
--
Questions: lists at interactiondesigners.com
--
Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements already)
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Registered in England no. 1371338

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
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It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
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If you have received this in error, please contact the sender
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10 Nov 2003 - 11:22am
Peter Bagnall
2003

There's an interesting project been done at Carnegie Mellon, called
Amulet

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~amulet/

Its separation of UI from data is stronger than all (as far as I know)
commercial systems, and this allows different widget designs to be
applied to the same application. But it's not just the look that can
change, it's the behaviour too. Well worth looking at for the
technically inclined.

Having said that, as a rule I'd rather create a design that solves a
human problem, and then work out how to implement it rather than derive
an object model and then create an interface. The latter means that
you'll always end up with a system for manipulating objects. Is that
really something we want to expose to users? Of course you don't always
have that luxury.

Cheers
--Pete

On Monday, Nov 10, 2003, at 11:33 Europe/London, Narey, Kevin wrote:

>> So I'm kind of wondering, are most UIs as object oriented as they
>> claim
>> they are. And, if they are object oriented. Why does all that
>> clutter
>> on the screen need to exist.
>
> Interesting thoughts, but is any UI truly 'object oriented'? If so I
> would
> be interested in seeing the result.
>
> Separating the content from the logic is becoming a common paradigm in
> software development. However, there is an intrinsic link to the
> middleware
> and presentation layer and although content is generated from designed
> objects in the middleware layer, the UI design is based on more Human
> factors and doesn't relate well to those middleware objects.
>
> On the matter of clutter.....I see 'clutter' as a purely subjective
> viewpoint and down to the individual user.
> As experienced users, we may only use send and receive as buttons in
> outlook, but that's our choice. Other less experienced users may well
> only
> feel comfortable using the other graphical elements available to them
> as a
> UI. It has to be a compromise where the potential user base is broad
> and
> unspecific.
>
> Most good UI's allow you to remove your 'clutter' to achieve a more
> 'advanced user target' layout. I often press F11 in IE to go full
> screen,
> eliminate the top menu bar and use the keyboard to navigate. At least I
> don't have to use a command line to do that.
>
> KN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Watson [mailto:awatson at attglobal.net]
> Sent: 07 November 2003 23:56
> To: Interaction Designers Discussion
> Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy
> Watson)
>
>
> My apologies if I mess this up. Its rather difficult for me to use
> email
> to access discussion forums.
>
> I'm a bit of an object purist, so I'm interested in learning all about
> UI from this point of view.
>
> I used to like working with the OS/2 workplace shell, and also with
> stuff
> such as OpenDoc and SOM (system object model).
>
> I also used to like working with Word Perfect 5 back in the old DOS
> days
> (for those that don't know it. It was a word processor that when fired
> up, presented the user with a plain blue screen with no menus or any
> other
> visible clutter. You just started typing what you wanted).
>
> I also have a strong dislike for menus and toolbars on applications.
> For
> example. I'm using Outlook to type this email. The top 1/3 of the
> screen
> is covered in menus, toolbars and entry fields. Apart from the To and
> Subject fields. I don't think I have ever used any of the other stuff.
>
> Its the same with web pages. There is all this clutter all over the
> place.
> My mouse has a back and forward button, I right click and use the
> context
> menus anyhow. And my keyboard has a favourites button at the top for
> when I
> have to go to a site I already know about.
>
> So I'm kind of wondering, are most UIs as object oriented as they claim
> they are. And, if they are object oriented. Why does all that clutter
> on the screen need to exist.
>
> Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-
> bounces at lists.interactiondesign
> ers.com]On Behalf Of Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
> Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2003 8:26 a.m.
> To: Interaction Designers Discussion
> Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)
>
>
> Looks like my original posting in HTML format didn't come through.
> This is
> my first post, so I'll try plain text.
>
> RE: OOUIs - Object-Oriented User Interfaces
>
> As they say, "Well...that's a deep subject." I wrote a book on OOUIs
> quite
> a while ago, titled, "The Gui-Ooui War: Windows Vs. OS/2: The
> Designer's
> Guide to Human-Computer Interfaces" (VNR, 1995). The book is now out of
> print, but Amazon.com has a used one for sale. It covers OOUIs in great
> depth. My later book, "The Elements of User Inteface Design" (Wiley,
> 1997)
> also covers OOUIs in depth.
>
> So, for purposes of this discussion list, what are you interested in?
>
> Regards,
> Theo
> _______________________
> Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
> e-mail: theo at theomandel.com
> web: www.theomandel.com
>
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:18:14 -0500
> From: "David Heller" <dave at interactiondesigners.com>
> Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)
> To: discuss at interactiondesigners.com
>
> I was just wondering if anyone had done any work on Object Oriented
> interfaces and if so, what their thoughts are on the subject.
> -- Andy Watson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at interactiondesigners.com
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
> http://discuss.interactiondesigners.com
> --
> Questions: lists at interactiondesigners.com
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements
> already)
> http://interactiondesigners.com/announceList/
> --
> http://interactiondesigners.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at interactiondesigners.com
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
> http://discuss.interactiondesigners.com
> --
> Questions: lists at interactiondesigners.com
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements
> already)
> http://interactiondesigners.com/announceList/
> --
> http://interactiondesigners.com/
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> gedas united kingdom limited
> Registered in England no. 1371338
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> and it may be privileged.
>
> It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
> whom it is addressed.
>
> If you have received this in error, please contact the sender
> and delete the material immediately.
> **********************************************************************
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at interactiondesigners.com
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
> http://discuss.interactiondesigners.com
> --
> Questions: lists at interactiondesigners.com
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get announcements
> already)
> http://interactiondesigners.com/announceList/
> --
> http://interactiondesigners.com/
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if
he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more
time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority.
- Elwyn Brooks White, 1899 - 1985

Peter Bagnall - http://people.surfaceeffect.com/pete/

5 Nov 2003 - 7:18am
Dave Malouf
2005

I was just wondering if anyone had done any work on Object Oriented
interfaces and if so, what their thoughts are on the subject.

-- Andy Watson

5 Nov 2003 - 1:39pm
theomandel
2003

As they say, "Well...that's a deep subject." I wrote a book on OOUIs quite
a while ago, titled, "The Gui-Ooui War: Windows Vs. OS/2: The Designer's
Guide to Human-Computer Interfaces" (VNR, 1995). The book is now out of
print, but Amazon.com has a used one for sale. It covers OOUIs in great
depth. My later book, "The Elements of User Inteface Design" (Wiley, 1997)
also covers OOUIs in depth.

So, for purposes of this discussion list, what are you interested in?

Regards,
Theo

9862 East Doubletree Ranch Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85258-5638

phone: (480) 664-1202
fax: (707) 667-1848

e-mail: <mailto:theo at theomandel.com> theo at theomandel.com
web: www.theomandel.com <http://www.theomandel.com/>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:18:14 -0500
From: "David Heller" <dave at interactiondesigners.com>
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)
To: <mailto:discuss at interactiondesigners.com>
discuss at interactiondesigners.com

I was just wondering if anyone had done any work on Object Oriented
interfaces and if so, what their thoughts are on the subject.
-- Andy Watson
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5 Nov 2003 - 1:46pm
Dave Malouf
2005

Well, I can't speak for Andrew, but here is what I'm interested in.

What about OOUI is good for users?
What about OOUI is good for designers?
What about OOUI is good for developers?

And how for each?

I have a few answers for each, but my understanding of OOUI is pretty
limited. Also, I'd be curious about where OOUI and pattern definition cross
each other.

-- dave

_____

From:
discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.
com] On Behalf Of Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:39 PM
To: Interaction Designers Discussion
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)

As they say, "Well...that's a deep subject." I wrote a book on OOUIs quite
a while ago, titled, "The Gui-Ooui War: Windows Vs. OS/2: The Designer's
Guide to Human-Computer Interfaces" (VNR, 1995). The book is now out of
print, but Amazon.com has a used one for sale. It covers OOUIs in great
depth. My later book, "The Elements of User Inteface Design" (Wiley, 1997)
also covers OOUIs in depth.

So, for purposes of this discussion list, what are you interested in?

Regards,
Theo

9862 East Doubletree Ranch Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85258-5638

phone: (480) 664-1202
fax: (707) 667-1848

e-mail: <mailto:theo at theomandel.com> theo at theomandel.com
web: www.theomandel.com <http://www.theomandel.com/>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:18:14 -0500
From: "David Heller" <dave at interactiondesigners.com>
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)
To: <mailto:discuss at interactiondesigners.com>
discuss at interactiondesigners.com

I was just wondering if anyone had done any work on Object Oriented
interfaces and if so, what their thoughts are on the subject.
-- Andy Watson

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5 Nov 2003 - 2:25pm
theomandel
2003

Looks like my original posting in HTML format didn't come through. This is
my first post, so I'll try plain text.

RE: OOUIs - Object-Oriented User Interfaces

As they say, "Well...that's a deep subject." I wrote a book on OOUIs quite
a while ago, titled, "The Gui-Ooui War: Windows Vs. OS/2: The Designer's
Guide to Human-Computer Interfaces" (VNR, 1995). The book is now out of
print, but Amazon.com has a used one for sale. It covers OOUIs in great
depth. My later book, "The Elements of User Inteface Design" (Wiley, 1997)
also covers OOUIs in depth.

So, for purposes of this discussion list, what are you interested in?

Regards,
Theo
_______________________
Theo Mandel, Ph.D.
e-mail: theo at theomandel.com
web: www.theomandel.com

------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:18:14 -0500
From: "David Heller" <dave at interactiondesigners.com>
Subject: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)
To: discuss at interactiondesigners.com

I was just wondering if anyone had done any work on Object Oriented
interfaces and if so, what their thoughts are on the subject.
-- Andy Watson

5 Nov 2003 - 11:11pm
John O'Donovan
2004

MessageI've worked with OOUI and in relation to user interfaces and design
patterns, OOUI is fundamental. Even just in terms of consistent, modular and
adaptable UI, there are many benefits for users. The benefits for designers
and developers are substantial.

Recommended:

"Design Patterns"
"...a book of design patterns that describe simple and elegant solutions to
specific problems in object-oriented software design...."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201633612/qid=1068090388//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/002-1614080-5733621?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

and

"Object Modelling and User Interface Design"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201657899/qid=1068090553/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-1614080-5733621?v=glance&s=books

Patterns in Object Oriented Design such as the MVC (model-view-controller)
are the building blocks of most modern GUIS, eg:

http://ootips.org/mvc-pattern.html

Also, methods developed in the world of Object Oriented Design such as Use
Cases, helped enforce the concept of the users perspective in system design
and how we model interactions in a system.

For designers and developers, OOUI allows for better enforcement of style
and greater modularity in development, amongst many things. This can be
through a kit of parts that plug together for example.

Java, .NET and even Flash take advantage of an OOUI to create flexible tools
for building GUIs.

Cheers,

jod

----- Original Message -----
From: David Heller
To: discuss at interactiondesigners.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ID Discuss] OO Interface Design (on behalf of Andy Watson)

Well, I can't speak for Andrew, but here is what I'm interested in.

What about OOUI is good for users?
What about OOUI is good for designers?
What about OOUI is good for developers?

And how for each?

I have a few answers for each, but my understanding of OOUI is pretty
limited. Also, I'd be curious about where OOUI and pattern definition cross
each other.

-- dave

.com/

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