IE7 vs Firefox

26 Oct 2006 - 12:36am
7 years ago
12 replies
351 reads
Soo Basu
2005

Hi
Can anyone tell me how is the IE7 different from Firefox?
Is there much difference now, that they've moved into tabbed browsing,
faster page loads and better image rendering?
Why do we designers spend so much time customzing web pages for IE...
Soo

Comments

26 Oct 2006 - 2:44am
cfmdesigns
2004

On Oct 25, 2006, at 10:36 PM, Sunandini Basu wrote:

> Can anyone tell me how is the IE7 different from Firefox?
> Is there much difference now, that they've moved into tabbed browsing,
> faster page loads and better image rendering?
> Why do we designers spend so much time customzing web pages for IE...

We do it be IE is still nearly ubiquitous, with something like 80% of
the market. Any time we want to do something, it *has* to work in
IE. Fortunately, the days when companies could develop something
*only* for IE that would fail with other browsers are gone... I hope.

Jim Drew
cfmdesigns at earthlink.net

26 Oct 2006 - 3:20am
maglez@btintern...
2006

Let me explain those differences between IE, FireFox(FF) or any other browser.

A web page is a bunch of HTML code, it also can contain code in other languages like JavaScript,
for instance.

When you browse to a web page using a browser, the server sends HTML code to your browser, then
that browser has to interpret that HTML code, and here is where the problem comes up, different
browsers interpret that HTML in different ways.

Let me give you an example, imagine that somewhere in that code that your browser has to
interpret, there is an instruction that says that an specific box has to have a margin of 10
pixels. This simple rule is one of the biggest problems with IE, since it interpret that rule in a
different way than the standard says, this standard has been set for the World Wide Web
Consortium, the organisation that recommends standards for the Internet, but Microsoft, many years
ago, desired that those rules could be better written and they came with their own rules.

Going back to the 10 pixels margin example, as Microsoft interpret that rule in a different way,
it will happen that the same web page will look different on IE that on a W3C comply browser like
FF.

Google "ie box model problem" and you will find many pages that explain this problem.

FF is not perfect, however, but it's much better than IE, when it comes to standards. Opera is
very good as well.

You can use the Acid2 test to see how standard comply a browser is at
http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/guide/

Let me know if you need more details.

Maglez.

--- CFM Designs <cfmdesigns at earthlink.net> wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2006, at 10:36 PM, Sunandini Basu wrote:
>
> > Can anyone tell me how is the IE7 different from Firefox?
> > Is there much difference now, that they've moved into tabbed browsing,
> > faster page loads and better image rendering?
> > Why do we designers spend so much time customzing web pages for IE...
>
> We do it be IE is still nearly ubiquitous, with something like 80% of
> the market. Any time we want to do something, it *has* to work in
> IE. Fortunately, the days when companies could develop something
> *only* for IE that would fail with other browsers are gone... I hope.
>
>
> Jim Drew
> cfmdesigns at earthlink.net
>
>
>
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26 Oct 2006 - 3:31am
Soo Basu
2005

Thanks a lot, guys.
I guess there is no short cut here then. We have to test out all pages
on Firefox, IE ( and then IE7) and maybe Opera, Safari, etc whatever
your target user base is likely to use.
Anyway this is way better that customizing a site for the mobile!
Cheers
Soo

26 Oct 2006 - 3:45am
maglez@btintern...
2006

I recommend to you to get an account with www.browsercam.com.

It's the one I use, it gives you screen shots for almost all browser out there by platform,
operating system, Flash non-Flash, JavaScript non-JavaScript and also for handheld devices.

Maglez.

--- Sunandini Basu <sunandinibasu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks a lot, guys.
> I guess there is no short cut here then. We have to test out all pages
> on Firefox, IE ( and then IE7) and maybe Opera, Safari, etc whatever
> your target user base is likely to use.
> Anyway this is way better that customizing a site for the mobile!
> Cheers
> Soo
>

26 Oct 2006 - 4:01am
Sidhartha Bezbora
2006

As Jim correctly mentioned, IE constitutes 80% of the market. So sooner or
later IE woud be upgraded to 7 and so the requirement for designing for IE
browser is inevitable.

~ Sidhartha Bezbora ~
http://www.WirelessDuniya.com

26 Oct 2006 - 6:21am
maglez@btintern...
2006

Hi Sidhartha.

Designing for the 80% of the Internet's population doesn't seem to bad, but what if you could
design for the 97%? that's great, don't you agree?.

Today, those sites that says things like "This site is best seen with IE" give a very poor
impression, those sites are a demonstration of poor quality.

I say the same with Accessibility, web sites without a proper accessibility implementation are of
low quality, and that is what set the different between professionalist and amateurish.

We all should go for the highest quality when possible.

Maglez.

--- Sidhartha Bezbora <sidhartha at acl-wireless.com> wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> As Jim correctly mentioned, IE constitutes 80% of the market. So sooner or
> later IE woud be upgraded to 7 and so the requirement for designing for IE
> browser is inevitable.
>
> ~ Sidhartha Bezbora ~
> http://www.WirelessDuniya.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
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>

26 Oct 2006 - 7:19am
Bryan J Busch
2006

> Can anyone tell me how is the IE7 different from Firefox?
> Is there much difference now, that they've moved into tabbed browsing,
> faster page loads and better image rendering?

The last time I looked at the IE7 beta, the UI had more in common
with Opera than with Firefox.

Two of my favorite differences are:

* Firefox is updated daily, IE is updated every four years or so
* Firefox has thousands of free extensions available which can
drastically transform your browsing experience (https://
addons.mozilla.org/firefox/extensions/)

> Why do we designers spend so much time customzing web pages for IE...

We shouldn't. In a few years, when IE7's installed user base has
expanded to outnumber that of IE6 (maybe less than years, if
companies decide to allow their employees to go ahead with the auto-
update that is being rolled out, but so far I've heard many say
otherwise), we should be able to stop applying filter after filter in
our CSS to fix the many layout bugs that exist in our world's most
popular and most problematic browser.

Here's a good resource for most of what you need to know regarding
coding for IE7: http://positioniseverything.net/articles/ie7-
dehacker.html

- BJB

26 Oct 2006 - 8:56am
Michael Micheletti
2006

It is my understanding (correct me please if this is mistaken) that the
upgrade to IE7 will occur automatically via Windows Update.

I struggled initially to figure out the beta of IE7 ("where did the menus
go?") and expect much confusion from surprised users.

Michael Micheletti

On 10/26/06, Sidhartha Bezbora <sidhartha at acl-wireless.com> wrote:
>
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> As Jim correctly mentioned, IE constitutes 80% of the market. So sooner or
> later IE woud be upgraded to 7 and so the requirement for designing for IE
> browser is inevitable.
>
> ~ Sidhartha Bezbora ~
> http://www.WirelessDuniya.com
>
>

26 Oct 2006 - 10:58am
maglez@btintern...
2006

This is from a Microsoft blog...
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/07/26/678149.aspx

It states that "...we will distribute IE7 as a high-priority update via Automatic Updates..."

Even so, I had to installed myself since my automatic update didn't picked it up, so I guess that
for the moment it's not on the automatic updates.

The previous link to that Microsoft blog was posted on the 26 July 2006 and Microsoft is well
known for changing plans quite often.

What I really like from FireFox is the automatic spelling checker when writing on a form, niceeee.

Maglez.

--- Michael Micheletti <michael.micheletti at gmail.com> wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]
>
> It is my understanding (correct me please if this is mistaken) that the
> upgrade to IE7 will occur automatically via Windows Update.
>
> I struggled initially to figure out the beta of IE7 ("where did the menus
> go?") and expect much confusion from surprised users.
>
> Michael Micheletti
>

26 Oct 2006 - 12:17pm
Weiwei Li
2006

IE7 has improved quite a bit in terms of following web standards such as
supporting fixed positioning, transparency, hovering actions on list items,
so there is less coding for web developers.

However, I don't think it supports z-index yet (correct me if I'm wrong)?
What other things do people notice that IE7 doesn't support well compared to
Firefox?

BTW, I actually quite like IE7's interface. It's clean and easy to adapt to.
Normally, I don't use the menu bar anyway since I have all the options I
need in the tool bar.

Weiwei

26 Oct 2006 - 6:03pm
Scott Bower
2006

The biggest thing they have fixed from a designer standpoint with IE7
is this:

Support the alpha channel in PNG images. In fact, I started dropping
small swf image containers into pages 10 years ago to get around the
IE bug. The code hack never really worked well. This has huge
implications for web applications. We can finally use PNG files! I
remember when Compuserve came by CNN in 2000 and threatened to sue us
for using GIF files exported from Photoshop. They went after the
companies with big web presences to get more bang for their lawsuits.
It is "technically" illegal (or at last in the past) to use GIF files
on the web created by Photoshop. IE kept us from converting back then.
I never could figure out if Microsoft intentionally created this flaw.

Addresses CSS consistency problems. They checked in the fixes to the
peekaboo and guillotine bugs documented at positioniseverything.net so
use of floated elements become more consistent.

Also, the new application development environment around Vista/XAML/WPF
supports open standards for padding and margins. It works the way it
supposed to.

scott

On Oct 26, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Sunandini Basu wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> Hi
> Can anyone tell me how is the IE7 different from Firefox?
> Is there much difference now, that they've moved into tabbed browsing,
> faster page loads and better image rendering?
> Why do we designers spend so much time customzing web pages for IE...
> Soo
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
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26 Oct 2006 - 11:20pm
Dimiter Simov
2006

>From what I see in the thread, mostly technical changes are mentioned.
Has anyone managed to evaluate the "experience" aspect of the change. I like
IE 6 because I can fully personalize the interface - menus, buttons, boxes.
FF is not good here.

>From what I have seen in IE7 (I have not yet installed it), customizing the
interface is not quite possible. Anyone?

Jimmy

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Bower
Sent: October 27, 2006 2:03
To: discuss at lists.interactiondesigners.com
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] IE7 vs Firefox

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

The biggest thing they have fixed from a designer standpoint with IE7 is
this:

Support the alpha channel in PNG images. In fact, I started dropping small
swf image containers into pages 10 years ago to get around the IE bug. The
code hack never really worked well. This has huge implications for web
applications. We can finally use PNG files! I remember when Compuserve came
by CNN in 2000 and threatened to sue us for using GIF files exported from
Photoshop. They went after the companies with big web presences to get more
bang for their lawsuits.
It is "technically" illegal (or at last in the past) to use GIF files on the
web created by Photoshop. IE kept us from converting back then.
I never could figure out if Microsoft intentionally created this flaw.

Addresses CSS consistency problems. They checked in the fixes to the
peekaboo and guillotine bugs documented at positioniseverything.net so use
of floated elements become more consistent.

Also, the new application development environment around Vista/XAML/WPF
supports open standards for padding and margins. It works the way it
supposed to.

scott

On Oct 26, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Sunandini Basu wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> Hi
> Can anyone tell me how is the IE7 different from Firefox?
> Is there much difference now, that they've moved into tabbed browsing,
> faster page loads and better image rendering?
> Why do we designers spend so much time customzing web pages for IE...
> Soo
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org List Guidelines
> ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/ List Help ..................
> http://listhelp.ixda.org/ (Un)Subscription Options ...
> http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org Home
> ....................... http://ixda.org/ Resource Library ...........
> http://resources.ixda.org

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