Tog talks about iPhone

16 Jan 2007 - 10:55pm
7 years ago
14 replies
746 reads
Dave Malouf
2005

Thought people would be interested in this article by Tog.

http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html

-- dave

Comments

16 Jan 2007 - 11:25pm
Mark Kot
2006

David Malouf wrote:

> Thought people would be interested in this article by Tog.
>
> http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html

Yes, read it this afternoon. Tog doesn't give out very many
favorable comments, but he seems to be leaning on the positive
side for the iPhone.

Really liked this paragraph the best:

> iPhone is revolutionary, not a big surprise coming from Steve Jobs. He knows how to gather a tiny team of brilliant young minds and work them half to death until they innovate beyond any reasonable expectations. He has the common sense to know what will ultimately find favor. And he has the hardened-steel man parts to take a chance and roll with it. What’s a pity is that so few others in this industry share those triple strengths.

It's not easy to build a tiny team of brilliant minds who report
to a brilliant mind in our current corporate culture.

Mark

17 Jan 2007 - 9:53am
Esteban Barahona
2006

2007/1/16, Mark Kot <markk en mega.net>:
>
> David Malouf wrote:
>
> > Thought people would be interested in this article by Tog.
> >
> > http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html

thanks for the link, tagged for later reading ^_^

Yes, read it this afternoon. Tog doesn't give out very many
> favorable comments, but he seems to be leaning on the positive
> side for the iPhone.
>
> Really liked this paragraph the best:
>
> > iPhone is revolutionary, not a big surprise coming from Steve Jobs. He
> knows how to gather a tiny team of brilliant young minds and work them half
> to death until they innovate beyond any reasonable expectations. He has the
> common sense to know what will ultimately find favor. And he has the
> hardened-steel man parts to take a chance and roll with it. What's a pity is
> that so few others in this industry share those triple strengths.
>
> It's not easy to build a tiny team of brilliant minds who report
> to a brilliant mind in our current corporate culture.
>
> Mark

well said. (typical/common) World-Wide Corporations doesn't have a culture.
It's a waste of human resources to live for profit. And that's the
pseudo-culture of WW Corporations.

Working in Cupertino seems like one of those few interesting creative
jobs... It's kind of neat that its CEO is called Steve Jobs... (I guess)
there's a lot of discipline of the creative-variety type, and that's a
passionate way/road. He discovered Ive on England ...and that leaves some
hope for an IxDer in learning-mode that lives in a so-called "developing
country" (were HCI is not even a specialization on Computer Science). That
makes Apple (in part... apple.com/store redirects to USA Store by default,
google.com redirected once to google.co.cr) a geographically-neutral
corporation.

A shame there's few corporations with an Apple-like culture...

--
http://www.zensui.org

17 Jan 2007 - 11:17am
Mark Schraad
2006

If you're a Peter Drucker fan you will be familiar with this notion. I will try and paraphrase as accurately as I can remember... profit is must have and should be a given in any company (table stakes?), but the "purpose" must be someting greater.

We have known since the Roman Empire that there is an optimal size, no greater than 150 people for executing efficiently and effectively. In this context, culture is critical. I will nearly always put culture over strategy... it is far more powerful.

>World-Wide Corporations doesn't have a culture.
>It's a waste of human resources to live for profit. And that's the
>pseudo-culture of WW Corporations.

17 Jan 2007 - 12:22pm
Jeff Howard
2004

The Peters and Waterman book _In Search of Excellence_ had a quote
along those lines. "Profit is like health. You need it, and the more
the better, but it's not why you exist."

Mark Schraad said:
> ...profit is must have and should be a given in any company
> (table stakes?), but the "purpose" must be someting greater.

// jeff

17 Jan 2007 - 9:11pm
Esteban Barahona
2006

Could you expand? Who's Peter Drucker? Those he write books (...I can ad it
to my "wishlist->books" from amazon.com)?

150? Why that number?

2007/1/17, Mark Schraad <mschraad en mac.com>:
>
> If you're a Peter Drucker fan you will be familiar with this notion. I
> will try and paraphrase as accurately as I can remember... profit is must
> have and should be a given in any company (table stakes?), but the "purpose"
> must be someting greater.
>
> We have known since the Roman Empire that there is an optimal size, no
> greater than 150 people for executing efficiently and effectively. In this
> context, culture is critical. I will nearly always put culture over
> strategy... it is far more powerful.
>
>
> >World-Wide Corporations doesn't have a culture.
> >It's a waste of human resources to live for profit. And that's the
> >pseudo-culture of WW Corporations.
>
>
>

--
http://www.zensui.org

17 Jan 2007 - 9:21pm
Steve Agalloco
2007

Esteban,
> 150? Why that number?
Have a read of Dunbar's number, it's interesting stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

This was also referenced in The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell

Best,
Steve

18 Jan 2007 - 8:32am
Mark Schraad
2006

>Could you expand? Who's Peter Drucker? Those he write books (...I can ad it
>to my "wishlist->books" from amazon.com)?

Peter is "the" classic business strategist and consultant. The 1993 "Innovation and Entrepreneurship" [ISBN-10: 0887306187] is my personal favorite - but there is also an "essentials" book and many others. He fell out of fashion for a bit, but was a though leader in innovation, management and business ethics.

>
>150? Why that number?

Like I said, it stems back to the Roman Empire... asn I believe is still a standard in the worlds militaries - Steve's previous references are great. It is taught in any standard organizational behavior class as around 150... the number of people that we can effectively manage. Obviously... the number of levels down (lieutenants and such) make a difference as well.

>
>2007/1/17, Mark Schraad <mschraad at mac.com>:
>>
>> If you're a Peter Drucker fan you will be familiar with this notion. I
>> will try and paraphrase as accurately as I can remember... profit is must
>> have and should be a given in any company (table stakes?), but the "purpose"
>> must be someting greater.
>>
>> We have known since the Roman Empire that there is an optimal size, no
>> greater than 150 people for executing efficiently and effectively. In this
>> context, culture is critical. I will nearly always put culture over
>> strategy... it is far more powerful.
>>

18 Jan 2007 - 1:16pm
Oleh Kovalchuke
2006

"Culture over strategy" - Amen.

Drucker also said (correctly) that the reason for existense of corporation
is profit, morals do not enter into it (see 'The Corporation' for one
reference). Of course he also noted that for corporation to last it needs to
attract good people, most of whom _are_ moral, hence corporation needs
higher goals and bloated PR departments.

Besides military Gore Associates uses the less than 150 number as well as
undefined flat hierarchy to build flexible, human size company:
http://www.commonsenseadvice.com/human_cortex_dunbar.html

--
Oleh Kovalchuke
Interaction Design is Design of Time
http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm

On 1/17/07, Mark Schraad <mschraad at mac.com> wrote:
>
> If you're a Peter Drucker fan you will be familiar with this notion. I
> will try and paraphrase as accurately as I can remember... profit is must
> have and should be a given in any company (table stakes?), but the "purpose"
> must be someting greater.
>
> We have known since the Roman Empire that there is an optimal size, no
> greater than 150 people for executing efficiently and effectively. In this
> context, culture is critical. I will nearly always put culture over
> strategy... it is far more powerful.
>
>
> >World-Wide Corporations doesn't have a culture.
> >It's a waste of human resources to live for profit. And that's the
> >pseudo-culture of WW Corporations.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
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>

18 Jan 2007 - 4:08pm
Esteban Barahona
2006

Gore? Al Gore? I saw "An Awful Truth" and he should be president of the USA
instead of the escuse of a human USA has now as "president"... presidents
aren't really needed, people are afraid to try to live peacefully in an
anarchic state. They fear anarchy. They don't get anarchy.

I have embraced Chaos, and flat human hierarchies (no one is the "boss",
interactions happen naturally).

2007/1/18, Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring en gmail.com>:
>
> "Culture over strategy" - Amen.
>
> Drucker also said (correctly) that the reason for existense of corporation
> is profit, morals do not enter into it (see 'The Corporation' for one
> reference). Of course he also noted that for corporation to last it needs to
> attract good people, most of whom _are_ moral, hence corporation needs
> higher goals and bloated PR departments.
>
> Besides military Gore Associates uses the less than 150 number as well as
> undefined flat hierarchy to build flexible, human size company:
> http://www.commonsenseadvice.com/human_cortex_dunbar.html
>
> --
> Oleh Kovalchuke
> Interaction Design is Design of Time
> http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm
>
>
>
>
> On 1/17/07, Mark Schraad <mschraad en mac.com> wrote:
>
> > If you're a Peter Drucker fan you will be familiar with this notion. I
> > will try and paraphrase as accurately as I can remember... profit is must
> > have and should be a given in any company (table stakes?), but the "purpose"
> > must be someting greater.
> >
> > We have known since the Roman Empire that there is an optimal size, no
> > greater than 150 people for executing efficiently and effectively. In this
> > context, culture is critical. I will nearly always put culture over
> > strategy... it is far more powerful.
> >
> >
> > >World-Wide Corporations doesn't have a culture.
> > >It's a waste of human resources to live for profit. And that's the
> > >pseudo-culture of WW Corporations.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss en ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > Questions .................. lists en ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> >
>
>
>
>

--
http://www.zensui.org

19 Jan 2007 - 9:05am
Robert Reimann
2003

Of course the iPhone is a lust object, just as designed. :)

But I think Tog is right on when he talks about a missed opportunity
in the lack of integration of messaging and other PIM functions.

Back in 1998 I designed a smart PDA/phone concept for a cell phone
manufacturer, the central functionality of which revolved around the
integration of messaging in exactly the way Tog described it: look up
a contact, and see all the forms of communication you've had with
them, be it email, vmail, past phone conversation, or SMS/chat, in a
single place. I don't recall if I'd included the voice to text
functionality that Tog mentioned, but that would certainly have been a
nice addition. The design also used information from the calendar to
provide context for phone behavior; using location awareness to
provide more contextual data opens up even more possibilities as Tog
suggests. Naturally this sort of functionality was the first thing I
looked for in the iPhone demos, but alas, the focus so far seems to be
on making existing phone/PIM behaviors more accessible and appealing
rather than deeply rethinking how they interoperate.

While it's a little disappointing that Apple seems to have missed an
opportunity while rethinking the cell phone so completely, on the
other hand, this is only version 1.0, and Apple has plenty of time and
ability to continue to innovate in this area, and I applaud them for
being one of the few real forces of design innovation left in the CE
industry.

Robert.

On 1/16/07, David Malouf <dave at synapticburn.com> wrote:
> Thought people would be interested in this article by Tog.
>
> http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html
>
> -- dave

--
Robert Reimann
President, IxDA

Manager, User Experience
Bose Corporation
Framingham, MA

19 Jan 2007 - 2:50pm
Esteban Barahona
2006

sorry vmail? video mail or voice mail?

2007/1/19, Robert Reimann <rmreimann en gmail.com>:
>
> Of course the iPhone is a lust object, just as designed. :)
>
> But I think Tog is right on when he talks about a missed opportunity
> in the lack of integration of messaging and other PIM functions.
>
> Back in 1998 I designed a smart PDA/phone concept for a cell phone
> manufacturer, the central functionality of which revolved around the
> integration of messaging in exactly the way Tog described it: look up
> a contact, and see all the forms of communication you've had with
> them, be it email, vmail, past phone conversation, or SMS/chat, in a
> single place. I don't recall if I'd included the voice to text
> functionality that Tog mentioned, but that would certainly have been a
> nice addition. The design also used information from the calendar to
> provide context for phone behavior; using location awareness to
> provide more contextual data opens up even more possibilities as Tog
> suggests. Naturally this sort of functionality was the first thing I
> looked for in the iPhone demos, but alas, the focus so far seems to be
> on making existing phone/PIM behaviors more accessible and appealing
> rather than deeply rethinking how they interoperate.
>
> While it's a little disappointing that Apple seems to have missed an
> opportunity while rethinking the cell phone so completely, on the
> other hand, this is only version 1.0, and Apple has plenty of time and
> ability to continue to innovate in this area, and I applaud them for
> being one of the few real forces of design innovation left in the CE
> industry.
>
> Robert.
>
> On 1/16/07, David Malouf <dave en synapticburn.com> wrote:
> > Thought people would be interested in this article by Tog.
> >
> > http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html
> >
> > -- dave
>
> --
> Robert Reimann
> President, IxDA
>
> Manager, User Experience
> Bose Corporation
> Framingham, MA
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss en ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists en ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

--
http://www.zensui.org

19 Jan 2007 - 3:18pm
Robert Reimann
2003

Esteban,

I meant voicemail... it was 1998, after all. I'm not sure even the 2G
networks were fully in place then :)

Interestingly, one of the things the client had reservations about
regarding visual voicemail was that it required work on the carrier
end, which Apple has clearly addressed in its close partnership with
Cingular/AT&T Wireless.

Robert.

On 1/19/07, Esteban Barahona <esteban.barahona at gmail.com> wrote:
> sorry vmail? video mail or voice mail?
>
> 2007/1/19, Robert Reimann <rmreimann at gmail.com>:
> >
> > Of course the iPhone is a lust object, just as designed. :)
> >
> > But I think Tog is right on when he talks about a missed opportunity
> > in the lack of integration of messaging and other PIM functions.
> >
> > Back in 1998 I designed a smart PDA/phone concept for a cell phone
> > manufacturer, the central functionality of which revolved around the
> > integration of messaging in exactly the way Tog described it: look up
> > a contact, and see all the forms of communication you've had with
> > them, be it email, vmail, past phone conversation, or SMS/chat, in a
> > single place. I don't recall if I'd included the voice to text
> > functionality that Tog mentioned, but that would certainly have been a
> > nice addition. The design also used information from the calendar to
> > provide context for phone behavior; using location awareness to
> > provide more contextual data opens up even more possibilities as Tog
> > suggests. Naturally this sort of functionality was the first thing I
> > looked for in the iPhone demos, but alas, the focus so far seems to be
> > on making existing phone/PIM behaviors more accessible and appealing
> > rather than deeply rethinking how they interoperate.
> >
> > While it's a little disappointing that Apple seems to have missed an
> > opportunity while rethinking the cell phone so completely, on the
> > other hand, this is only version 1.0, and Apple has plenty of time and
> > ability to continue to innovate in this area, and I applaud them for
> > being one of the few real forces of design innovation left in the CE
> > industry.
> >
> > Robert.
> >
> > On 1/16/07, David Malouf <dave at synapticburn.com> wrote:
> > > Thought people would be interested in this article by Tog.
> > >
> > > http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html
> > >
> > > -- dave
> >
> > --
> > Robert Reimann
> > President, IxDA
> >
> > Manager, User Experience
> > Bose Corporation
> > Framingham, MA
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > (Un)Subscription Options ...
> http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > Announcements List .........
> http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.zensui.org

--
Robert Reimann
President, IxDA

Manager, User Experience
Bose Corporation
Framingham, MA

20 Jan 2007 - 1:03am
Esteban Barahona
2006

bah... lets users hack their own hardware... give me an iMac so that I hang
it on a custom made semi-permanent work/play installation/sculpture (that's
a real physical 3D one)... it just requires:

metal (but it's mercury not a solid one...)
wood (for the chairs, desks... metal is cold for proximity)
glass (for transparency... it leaves to interesting user interaction with
the environment... really I say it from experience)

give me an iPhone so that I can use my own voice (cuss that's natural not
typing on racoon-sized chaotic-without-purpose qwerty keyboards) to call...
and see if all the "carriers b-s" is just overhead/useless-interaction-noise

I hack interfaces btw... but on the front end directly...

the 3 ones: Macintosh, Free Desktop, and Windows...

triads are a cool abstract module... way useful for concepts... why not
"redefine" buddhism (as one, there's no need for various traditions... I'm
in contact with Lisa, no, not Lisa Simpson a real "gringa"...). Speaking of
gring en s, they are cool. The "chimp on top of the tree" is the one that needs
to be ignored. Yes, ignored. Imagine ALL USA-army (those are drones,
basically part of the technology-kingdom) saying NO the same day to
chimp-bush. Imagine ALL Irak-fabricatedEnemy saying NO to chimp-Osama. You
want Oil? Those it taste good? hmmm... it's like clean water. Or gold, gold
is flexible... almost like mercury. There's no need to use "states of
matter". cuss matter doesn't exist. Poor scientists have it all backward.
Poor artists have it all backward. I make a
spell-fussion-2-main-parts-of-brain (it's for cows, really*).

*speaking of cows, or "pure" dharma. Do you want to be like a chiken? NO!!
Chickens whine less than humans (give me a formless-form realm)

*actually it was casted earlier... on the positive end... giving greetings
to an airplane that I heard*

I read an essay by a non-buddha that "enlightment is not for the rest of
us". wtf?! with what "authority" those he/she/it says that. Enlightment is
for cows. Cows are cool, that's why I eat soya... and why I am becoming
full-vegan... I eat air remember... speaking of air... I don't do it too
much... but I'm a terminal breath-aholic

*listening Tool's EndOfTheWorldv2012 song*

Thanks Timeless Buddhas! I can illustrate the process! jeje, and have a nice
time/days/life...

2007/1/19, Robert Reimann <rmreimann en gmail.com>:
>
> Esteban,
>
> I meant voicemail... it was 1998, after all. I'm not sure even the 2G
> networks were fully in place then :)
>
> Interestingly, one of the things the client had reservations about
> regarding visual voicemail was that it required work on the carrier
> end, which Apple has clearly addressed in its close partnership with
> Cingular/AT&T Wireless.
>
> Robert.
>
> On 1/19/07, Esteban Barahona <esteban.barahona en gmail.com > wrote:
> > sorry vmail? video mail or voice mail?
> >
> > 2007/1/19, Robert Reimann <rmreimann en gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > Of course the iPhone is a lust object, just as designed. :)
> > >
> > > But I think Tog is right on when he talks about a missed opportunity
> > > in the lack of integration of messaging and other PIM functions.
> > >
> > > Back in 1998 I designed a smart PDA/phone concept for a cell phone
> > > manufacturer, the central functionality of which revolved around the
> > > integration of messaging in exactly the way Tog described it: look up
> > > a contact, and see all the forms of communication you've had with
> > > them, be it email, vmail, past phone conversation, or SMS/chat, in a
> > > single place. I don't recall if I'd included the voice to text
> > > functionality that Tog mentioned, but that would certainly have been a
>
> > > nice addition. The design also used information from the calendar to
> > > provide context for phone behavior; using location awareness to
> > > provide more contextual data opens up even more possibilities as Tog
> > > suggests. Naturally this sort of functionality was the first thing I
> > > looked for in the iPhone demos, but alas, the focus so far seems to be
> > > on making existing phone/PIM behaviors more accessible and appealing
> > > rather than deeply rethinking how they interoperate.
> > >
> > > While it's a little disappointing that Apple seems to have missed an
> > > opportunity while rethinking the cell phone so completely, on the
> > > other hand, this is only version 1.0, and Apple has plenty of time and
> > > ability to continue to innovate in this area, and I applaud them for
> > > being one of the few real forces of design innovation left in the CE
> > > industry.
> > >
> > > Robert.
> > >
> > > On 1/16/07, David Malouf <dave en synapticburn.com> wrote:
> > > > Thought people would be interested in this article by Tog.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.asktog.com/columns/070iPhoneFirstLook.html
> > > >
> > > > -- dave
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robert Reimann
> > > President, IxDA
> > >
> > > Manager, User Experience
> > > Bose Corporation
> > > Framingham, MA
> > >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss en ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > > (Un)Subscription Options ...
> > http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > > Announcements List .........
> > http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > > Questions .................. lists en ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.zensui.org
>
>
> --
> Robert Reimann
> President, IxDA
>
> Manager, User Experience
> Bose Corporation
> Framingham, MA
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss en ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists en ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

--
http://www.zensui.org

22 Jan 2007 - 1:04pm
Esteban Barahona
2006

Paul Schreiber <shrub en mac.com>

Sorry but try to walk on my shoes/wings...

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