Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style Guides?

15 Feb 2007 - 10:09am
7 years ago
27 replies
1656 reads
Dan Brown
2004

Hello!
Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.

Thanks!
-- Dan

--
} work: eightshapes.com
} book: communicatingdesign.com
} blog: greenonions.com
} talk: +1 (301) 801-4850

Comments

15 Feb 2007 - 10:23am
Dave Malouf
2005

The best example of a pattern library I know of is in Jennifer Tidwell's
book designing interfaces. it is an amazing pattern library in and of itself
and presented brillaintly.

If by "public" you mean "free" than that is a different story.

For mobile devices Barbara Ballard is compiling a list of patterns at
http://www.littlespringsdesign.com/blog/2007/02/12/design-pattern-of-the-week-launch-process/

Other pattern sources are def. out there, I just need to review my
bookmarks.

I think AJAXPatterns.org is ou there as well:
http://ajaxpatterns.org/Main_Page

-- dave

On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello!
> Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
> one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
>
> Thanks!
> -- Dan
>
> --
> } work: eightshapes.com
> } book: communicatingdesign.com
> } blog: greenonions.com
> } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

--
David Malouf
http://synapticburn.com/

15 Feb 2007 - 10:25am
skyburn
2005

Dan we are looking to create a hybrid of Yahoo and

http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html

Also, put it in wiki.

-Joe

On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello!
> Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
> one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
>
> Thanks!
> -- Dan
>
> --
> } work: eightshapes.com
> } book: communicatingdesign.com
> } blog: greenonions.com
> } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

--
Joe

15 Feb 2007 - 10:36am
Jack Skates
2006

I don't know if it's "good example" or not, but SAP has published their
library which was originally developed by Frog...

www.sapdesignguild.org

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Brown [mailto:brownorama at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:10 AM
To: IxD Mailinglist
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style Guides?

Hello!
Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly derived
lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are any other
world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of one, let me know
off-list, and I'll compile and post.

Thanks!
-- Dan

--
} work: eightshapes.com
} book: communicatingdesign.com
} blog: greenonions.com
} talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org List Guidelines ............
http://listguide.ixda.org/ List Help ..................
http://listhelp.ixda.org/ (Un)Subscription Options ...
http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
Questions .................. lists at ixda.org Home .......................
http://ixda.org/ Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

15 Feb 2007 - 10:59am
Shareta Barnes
2006

Hi there,

You should try patterns in Interaction Design. It's not exactly
"world-class" but I think they have a good reference library.
http://www.welie.com/patterns/index.html

Shareta Barnes
UXNet LA-Houston <http://www.uxnet.org/locale.php?74>

16 Feb 2007 - 8:33am
Suleman Shahid
2007

Hi,

You can also take a look at

Jan borchers' HCI pattern website: http://www.hcipatterns.org/tiki-index.php

UC Berkley's library: http://www.ui-designpatterns.org/index.html

and Helsinki university's project:
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/salaakso/patterns/

will let you know few others soon!

cheers,

Suleman

On 2/15/07, Shareta Barnes <shareta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> You should try patterns in Interaction Design. It's not exactly
> "world-class" but I think they have a good reference library.
> http://www.welie.com/patterns/index.html
>
> Shareta Barnes
> UXNet LA-Houston <http://www.uxnet.org/locale.php?74>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

16 Feb 2007 - 8:53am
Dan Brown
2004

The suggestions are still pouring in, and I'm grateful for the
references. I'll likely post them to delicious using a unique tag in
the next few days.

What's becoming apparent is a distinction between two different types
of libraries: Generic and Organization-Specific.

Here's an example of a generic library:
http://www.hcipatterns.org/tiki-index.php

And here's an example of an organization-specific library:
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html

In organization specific libraries, there are components that are
meaningful only to the organization.

Example:
The use of advertising in Oracle web-based applications
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/advertising.html

At the same time, the nature of pattern libraries make such patterns
easily extensible to other uses, more so than say a style guide would.

So, Friday Food for Thought: What other distinctions are there? Should
organizations develop unique libraries when there are so many generic
ones out there?

-- Dan

On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
> Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
> one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
>
> Thanks!
> -- Dan
>
> --
> } work: eightshapes.com
> } book: communicatingdesign.com
> } blog: greenonions.com
> } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
>

--
} work: eightshapes.com
} book: communicatingdesign.com
} blog: greenonions.com
} talk: +1 (301) 801-4850

16 Feb 2007 - 9:45am
Suleman Shahid
2007

Another distinction i have seen and also worked on is kind of "Application
Specific" patterns guidelines or patterns. For example if an application is
about Financial Accounting or CRM/ERP then there are/can be specific
patterns and guidelines on different levels (from user interface to
underlying data models) for designing such applications.

Some products are really gigantic and to have organization specific/product
specific guidelines is helpful. If you take an example of Oracle then
working on Oracle financials or Oracle 9i as back end, Oracle Developer as a
front end and Oracle portal for web interface is a nice integrated solution
but require good amount of skills both on user interface design level and
back end design level. Having good patterns and guidelines as best practices
offered by the organization or individuals would be handy!

same is true for Microsoft or SAP specific solutions.

that's is what i can infer from my limited knowledge!

cheers,

Suleman

On 2/16/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The suggestions are still pouring in, and I'm grateful for the
> references. I'll likely post them to delicious using a unique tag in
> the next few days.
>
> What's becoming apparent is a distinction between two different types
> of libraries: Generic and Organization-Specific.
>
> Here's an example of a generic library:
> http://www.hcipatterns.org/tiki-index.php
>
> And here's an example of an organization-specific library:
> http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html
>
> In organization specific libraries, there are components that are
> meaningful only to the organization.
>
> Example:
> The use of advertising in Oracle web-based applications
> http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/advertising.html
>
> At the same time, the nature of pattern libraries make such patterns
> easily extensible to other uses, more so than say a style guide would.
>
> So, Friday Food for Thought: What other distinctions are there? Should
> organizations develop unique libraries when there are so many generic
> ones out there?
>
> -- Dan
>
>
>
> On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello!
> > Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> > derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> > any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
> > one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -- Dan
> >
> > --
> > } work: eightshapes.com
> > } book: communicatingdesign.com
> > } blog: greenonions.com
> > } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> >
>
>
> --
> } work: eightshapes.com
> } book: communicatingdesign.com
> } blog: greenonions.com
> } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

16 Feb 2007 - 9:55am
Dave Malouf
2005

having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to say that
I often see another distinction.

Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and others
that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to the
generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more about
widget guidelines than actually patterns.

Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something I haven't
seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to patterns
of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and behaviors.

As a design tool, especially doing research for an application which is
where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start thinking
about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would first want
to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the more
classic UI patterns.

-- dave

On 2/16/07, Suleman Shahid <suleman.shahid at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Another distinction i have seen and also worked on is kind
> of "Application
> Specific" patterns guidelines or patterns. For example if an application
> is
> about Financial Accounting or CRM/ERP then there are/can be specific
> patterns and guidelines on different levels (from user interface to
> underlying data models) for designing such applications.
>
> Some products are really gigantic and to have organization
> specific/product
> specific guidelines is helpful. If you take an example of Oracle then
> working on Oracle financials or Oracle 9i as back end, Oracle Developer as
> a
> front end and Oracle portal for web interface is a nice integrated
> solution
> but require good amount of skills both on user interface design level and
> back end design level. Having good patterns and guidelines as best
> practices
> offered by the organization or individuals would be handy!
>
> same is true for Microsoft or SAP specific solutions.
>
> that's is what i can infer from my limited knowledge!
>
> cheers,
>
> Suleman
>
>
> On 2/16/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The suggestions are still pouring in, and I'm grateful for the
> > references. I'll likely post them to delicious using a unique tag in
> > the next few days.
> >
> > What's becoming apparent is a distinction between two different types
> > of libraries: Generic and Organization-Specific.
> >
> > Here's an example of a generic library:
> > http://www.hcipatterns.org/tiki-index.php
> >
> > And here's an example of an organization-specific library:
> > http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html
> >
> > In organization specific libraries, there are components that are
> > meaningful only to the organization.
> >
> > Example:
> > The use of advertising in Oracle web-based applications
> > http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/advertising.html
> >
> > At the same time, the nature of pattern libraries make such patterns
> > easily extensible to other uses, more so than say a style guide would.
> >
> > So, Friday Food for Thought: What other distinctions are there? Should
> > organizations develop unique libraries when there are so many generic
> > ones out there?
> >
> > -- Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > > Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> > > derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> > > any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
> > > one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > -- Dan
> > >
> > > --
> > > } work: eightshapes.com
> > > } book: communicatingdesign.com
> > > } blog: greenonions.com
> > > } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > } work: eightshapes.com
> > } book: communicatingdesign.com
> > } blog: greenonions.com
> > } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

--
David Malouf
http://synapticburn.com/
http://ixda.org/
http://motorola.com/

16 Feb 2007 - 10:29am
Suleman Shahid
2007

Dave, that's seems to be an interesting work. Please share once you are done
with this!

When you say the pattern library on uses and contexts, you mean/want it for
a particular application?

C. Alexander nicely talks about the concept of "Forces" and solution is to
balance the opposing forces but in a particular context. So the context is
there and as the context changes, the existing solution may be invalid. So
in your approach, do you want to identify the uses and contexts first and
investigate which solutions are available for these contexts? would it b ea
reverse approach as compare to existing approaches?

Suleman

On 2/16/07, David Malouf <dave.ixd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to say
> that
> I often see another distinction.
>
> Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and others
> that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to the
> generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more about
> widget guidelines than actually patterns.
>
> Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something I
> haven't
> seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to
> patterns
> of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
> application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and behaviors.
>
> As a design tool, especially doing research for an application which is
> where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start thinking
> about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would first
> want
> to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the more
> classic UI patterns.
>
> -- dave
>
>
> On 2/16/07, Suleman Shahid <suleman.shahid at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Another distinction i have seen and also worked on is kind
> > of "Application
> > Specific" patterns guidelines or patterns. For example if an application
> > is
> > about Financial Accounting or CRM/ERP then there are/can be specific
> > patterns and guidelines on different levels (from user interface to
> > underlying data models) for designing such applications.
> >
> > Some products are really gigantic and to have organization
> > specific/product
> > specific guidelines is helpful. If you take an example of Oracle then
> > working on Oracle financials or Oracle 9i as back end, Oracle Developer
> as
> > a
> > front end and Oracle portal for web interface is a nice integrated
> > solution
> > but require good amount of skills both on user interface design level
> and
> > back end design level. Having good patterns and guidelines as best
> > practices
> > offered by the organization or individuals would be handy!
> >
> > same is true for Microsoft or SAP specific solutions.
> >
> > that's is what i can infer from my limited knowledge!
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Suleman
> >
> >
> > On 2/16/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The suggestions are still pouring in, and I'm grateful for the
> > > references. I'll likely post them to delicious using a unique tag in
> > > the next few days.
> > >
> > > What's becoming apparent is a distinction between two different types
> > > of libraries: Generic and Organization-Specific.
> > >
> > > Here's an example of a generic library:
> > > http://www.hcipatterns.org/tiki-index.php
> > >
> > > And here's an example of an organization-specific library:
> > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html
> > >
> > > In organization specific libraries, there are components that are
> > > meaningful only to the organization.
> > >
> > > Example:
> > > The use of advertising in Oracle web-based applications
> > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/advertising.html
> > >
> > > At the same time, the nature of pattern libraries make such patterns
> > > easily extensible to other uses, more so than say a style guide would.
> > >
> > > So, Friday Food for Thought: What other distinctions are there? Should
> > > organizations develop unique libraries when there are so many generic
> > > ones out there?
> > >
> > > -- Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hello!
> > > > Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> > > > derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> > > > any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know
> of
> > > > one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > -- Dan
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > } work: eightshapes.com
> > > > } book: communicatingdesign.com
> > > > } blog: greenonions.com
> > > > } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > } work: eightshapes.com
> > > } book: communicatingdesign.com
> > > } blog: greenonions.com
> > > } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> > >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David Malouf
> http://synapticburn.com/
> http://ixda.org/
> http://motorola.com/
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

16 Feb 2007 - 11:07am
Joshua Porter
2007

Yeah, Dave, my thoughts exactly. We need contextual
patterns...patterns that describe contexts that occur over and over
but not necessarily using the same interface elements.

Here's a possible contextual pattern that comes out of our research
at UIE:

*Leverage Seducible Moments*

What: create calls to action that occur immediately after someone has
accomplished a task

Use When: Someone has just completed a task (such as reading a news
article or adding an item to a shopping cart) and you have other
valuable options they might consider. If every UI screen has a
particular action associated with it, then there will be a point at
which the user has completed the action and an opportunity for
seduction.

Why: At this point of completion, users have satisfied some part of
their purpose for using the interface, and are more likely to
consider other options. They have had a small success, and are open
to other opportunities such as related information, upselling, or
other similar content.

How: Following a user's flow of interaction, place calls to action
immediately after the completion of a task. Just when they might ask
"what do I do now?", give them something to do.

Examples:

Recommended items in Amazon's Shopping Cart (when you add an item,
they show you recommended products based on that item)
Share this article (we use this extensively at UIE: see the original
article on seducible moments... http://www.uie.com/articles/
seductive_design/ )

Is this the sort of thing that you were thinking, Dave? I can see
this type of pattern being very powerful and a good complement to
interface element libraries.

Cheers,

Josh

On Feb 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, David Malouf wrote:

> having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to
> say that
> I often see another distinction.
>
> Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and
> others
> that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to the
> generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more about
> widget guidelines than actually patterns.
>
> Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something
> I haven't
> seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to
> patterns
> of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
> application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and
> behaviors.
>
> As a design tool, especially doing research for an application
> which is
> where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start
> thinking
> about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would
> first want
> to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the
> more
> classic UI patterns.
>
> -- dave
>

Joshua Porter
jporter at uie.com
Director of Web Development
User Interface Engineering
http://www.uie.com

Personal blog:
http://bokardo.com

16 Feb 2007 - 11:07am
Mark Schraad
2006

So Dave, would the goal here be to essentially catalog affordances?

Mark

>having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to say that
>I often see another distinction.
>
>Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and others
>that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to the
>generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more about
>widget guidelines than actually patterns.
>
>Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something I haven't
>seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to patterns
>of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
>application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and behaviors.
>
>As a design tool, especially doing research for an application which is
>where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start thinking
>about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would first want
>to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the more
>classic UI patterns.
>
>-- dave

16 Feb 2007 - 11:32am
jayeffvee
2007

Other distinctions...hmm...

What I notice mostly about web design pattern libraries is that they
seem curiously flat. Christopher Alexander's language is very much not
so -- he starts from high-level principles like "independent regions"
and moves through things like to "house for a small family" to
"farmhouse kitchen" and below. His language are not a strictly
hierarchical structure, because the interconnect-ability of the
patterns, but there definitely ARE some things that are more general --
and principle-based -- than others. So it's not a tree structure, it's
a sort of spiral/web structure.

I don't see that depth in, for instance, Jenifer Tidwell or Douglas Van
Duyne, and other web-based pattern languages.

Imagine if you started a pattern string with, say, Alan Cooper/Robert
Reimann's interaction design axioms -- say "optimize for
intermediates"...rather than Van Duyne's "Basic e-Commerce" or Tidwell's
"Doing Things." I think you'd get a much richer and more useful
language., whether generic or organization-specific.

Does that make sense?

And for your other question: I think of course organizations should have
one specific to them: one that suits their business model and expresses
their brand.

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:53 AM
To: IxD Mailinglist
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
Guides?

The suggestions are still pouring in, and I'm grateful for the
references. I'll likely post them to delicious using a unique tag in
the next few days.

What's becoming apparent is a distinction between two different types
of libraries: Generic and Organization-Specific.

Here's an example of a generic library:
http://www.hcipatterns.org/tiki-index.php

And here's an example of an organization-specific library:
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html

In organization specific libraries, there are components that are
meaningful only to the organization.

Example:
The use of advertising in Oracle web-based applications
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/advertising.html

At the same time, the nature of pattern libraries make such patterns
easily extensible to other uses, more so than say a style guide would.

So, Friday Food for Thought: What other distinctions are there? Should
organizations develop unique libraries when there are so many generic
ones out there?

-- Dan

On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
> Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
> one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
>
> Thanks!
> -- Dan
>
> --
> } work: eightshapes.com
> } book: communicatingdesign.com
> } blog: greenonions.com
> } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
>

--
} work: eightshapes.com
} book: communicatingdesign.com
} blog: greenonions.com
} talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
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16 Feb 2007 - 11:47am
jayeffvee
2007

:-) that's what you get for writing before you read other
responses...I meant, yeah, what Dave said...

But the difference between what Dave said and I said is depth...and
being context vs. principle based...

I think the hierarchy goes:

Principle
Context
Function
Widget
Affordance

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Vermette, Joan
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:32 AM
To: Dan Brown; IxD Mailinglist
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
Guides?

Other distinctions...hmm...

What I notice mostly about web design pattern libraries is that they
seem curiously flat. Christopher Alexander's language is very much not
so -- he starts from high-level principles like "independent regions"
and moves through things like to "house for a small family" to
"farmhouse kitchen" and below. His language are not a strictly
hierarchical structure, because the interconnect-ability of the
patterns, but there definitely ARE some things that are more general --
and principle-based -- than others. So it's not a tree structure, it's
a sort of spiral/web structure.

I don't see that depth in, for instance, Jenifer Tidwell or Douglas Van
Duyne, and other web-based pattern languages.

Imagine if you started a pattern string with, say, Alan Cooper/Robert
Reimann's interaction design axioms -- say "optimize for
intermediates"...rather than Van Duyne's "Basic e-Commerce" or Tidwell's
"Doing Things." I think you'd get a much richer and more useful
language., whether generic or organization-specific.

Does that make sense?

And for your other question: I think of course organizations should have
one specific to them: one that suits their business model and expresses
their brand.

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:53 AM
To: IxD Mailinglist
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
Guides?

The suggestions are still pouring in, and I'm grateful for the
references. I'll likely post them to delicious using a unique tag in
the next few days.

What's becoming apparent is a distinction between two different types
of libraries: Generic and Organization-Specific.

Here's an example of a generic library:
http://www.hcipatterns.org/tiki-index.php

And here's an example of an organization-specific library:
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html

In organization specific libraries, there are components that are
meaningful only to the organization.

Example:
The use of advertising in Oracle web-based applications
http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/advertising.html

At the same time, the nature of pattern libraries make such patterns
easily extensible to other uses, more so than say a style guide would.

So, Friday Food for Thought: What other distinctions are there? Should
organizations develop unique libraries when there are so many generic
ones out there?

-- Dan

On 2/15/07, Dan Brown <brownorama at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
> Yahoo's public pattern library is a great model, and I've certainly
> derived lots of inspiration from it, but I'm wondering if there are
> any other world-class examples for public consumption? If you know of
> one, let me know off-list, and I'll compile and post.
>
> Thanks!
> -- Dan
>
> --
> } work: eightshapes.com
> } book: communicatingdesign.com
> } blog: greenonions.com
> } talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
>

--
} work: eightshapes.com
} book: communicatingdesign.com
} blog: greenonions.com
} talk: +1 (301) 801-4850
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
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Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
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Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

________________________________________________________________
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16 Feb 2007 - 3:44pm
Barbara Ballard
2005

On 2/16/07, Vermette, Joan <Joan.Vermette at fmr.com> wrote:
> I don't see that depth in, for instance, Jenifer Tidwell or Douglas Van
> Duyne, and other web-based pattern languages.
>
> Imagine if you started a pattern string with, say, Alan Cooper/Robert
> Reimann's interaction design axioms -- say "optimize for
> intermediates"...rather than Van Duyne's "Basic e-Commerce" or Tidwell's
> "Doing Things." I think you'd get a much richer and more useful
> language., whether generic or organization-specific.

(book references below are to Designing the Mobile User Experience,
available now in Europe and in April in the US)

There's a reason why the book chapter preceding "Patterns" was "Design
Principles". Because they are different. A pattern is a good solution
usable by a developer or less experienced designer, a principle is a
heuristic that a good designer can use. "Leverage immediacies" is
great, but I can't really tell a developer to do that.

I think of patterns as schema (for those of you with a psychological
bent): a person holding a schema recognizes a set of stimuli as
comprising a situation, and has a built-in process for handling the
situation.

You can't just sew patterns together and get a good experience. It
will be better than sewing together in-expertly designed solutions to
the same problems, but it still won't be good.

For the mobile UI pattern library, I'm putting out the generic library
as a wiki. It's an education to developers and most designers. In
the meantime, we'll happily help a company put together a corporate
pattern library. Definitely different.

--
Barbara Ballard
barbara at littlespringsdesign.com 1-785-838-3003

17 Feb 2007 - 12:11pm
Jenifer Tidwell
2003

One of the things I wanted to do with "Designing Interfaces," but lacked the
necessary time and space, was to visually show the web of interrelationships
among the patterns in the book.

And in the time since the book was published, I've been either too busy or
too lazy. :-) Perhaps it's time to make a pull-out chart of the patterns in
the book, along with some of the principles that they derive from and the
genres that some of them belong to. Would that be helpful to anyone here?

That said, I don't think you'll find as rich a web of interconnections as
you will in Alexander's work. I wrote down only ~100 patterns, not the over
300 that Alexander et. al. wrote. But that's not an inherent limitation on
UI patterns as such -- just on the publication of that particular book!

By the way, the very first chapter of "Designing Interfaces" was an
experimental attempt at cataloging "user behavior" patterns. They don't
describe how to build something -- they describe common things that users do
or want to do. Their names include Safe Exploration, Satisficing,
Incremental Construction, and Prospective Memory. Many of the other, more
standard patterns derive from the ones in this chapter: they directly
support these behavioral patterns.

I'd like to start a conversation about these. Are they helpful? What
others are there? Can they, or should they, be formalized more than I did
in "Designing Interfaces"?

- Jenifer

On 2/16/07, Vermette, Joan <Joan.Vermette at fmr.com> wrote:
>
> Other distinctions...hmm...
>
> What I notice mostly about web design pattern libraries is that they
> seem curiously flat. Christopher Alexander's language is very much not
> so -- he starts from high-level principles like "independent regions"
> and moves through things like to "house for a small family" to
> "farmhouse kitchen" and below. His language are not a strictly
> hierarchical structure, because the interconnect-ability of the
> patterns, but there definitely ARE some things that are more general --
> and principle-based -- than others. So it's not a tree structure, it's
> a sort of spiral/web structure.
>
> I don't see that depth in, for instance, Jenifer Tidwell or Douglas Van
> Duyne, and other web-based pattern languages.
> ...
>

---------------------------------------
Jenifer Tidwell
jenifer.tidwell at gmail.com
http://designinginterfaces.com
http://jtidwell.net

17 Feb 2007 - 11:07am
Peter Boersma
2003

Dan asked:
> So, Friday Food for Thought: What other distinctions are there? Should
> organizations develop unique libraries when there are so many generic
> ones out there?

First the specific question:
Yes, organizations should develop unique libraries, but they can base them on (and refer to) exisiting libraries. That's the good thing about publishing the generic ones :-) (By the way, my personal favourite collection is Martijn van Welie's collection at http://www.welie.com)

Then the generic question:
Another distinction is that between design patterns and design process patterns. Adding design process attributes to patterns expands the focus of patterns to include the context of design. I wrote more about this last year on my blog:

"Processes + Patterns = ?"
http://www.peterboersma.com/blog/2006/08/processes-patterns.html

and:

"Adding design process attributes to patterns"
http://www.peterboersma.com/blog/2006/08/adding-design-process-attributes-to.html

Peter
--
Peter Boersma | Senior Interaction Designer | Info.nl
http://www.peterboersma.com/blog | http://www.info.nl

20 Feb 2007 - 8:37am
Welie, Martijn van
2005

Well, what can I say. All pattern writers (including me) write their
patterns from a certain perspective. None of us uses exactly the same
perspective. I personally think that patterns should be very concrete
solutions to common problems. Joshua's example below would then not
qualify as a pattern in my definition. First of all because no actual
solution is described and it is not clear when this would work and when
not. So that would mean it is no more than a guideline written in a
pattern format. Ideally a pattern should be very strict in when the
described solution works and when not. That is what makes writing
patterns so hard. For example in the example below one may ask when it
doesn't work? Does it work after shopping only or also in all other
contexts? What kind of offers should be given? Certainly not items that
are more expensive that the item already bought...and so on.......

I think there is room for guidelines but also principles and widgets.
Patterns certainly do not solve all problems in this world. Nonetheless,
all of these terms are not very well defined so it is easy to mistake a
pattern for a principle or guideline...hopefully we'll get better at
this in the future.

Cheers,

Martijn

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Joshua Porter
Sent: vrijdag 16 februari 2007 17:08
To: IxD Mailinglist
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
Guides?

Yeah, Dave, my thoughts exactly. We need contextual
patterns...patterns that describe contexts that occur over and over
but not necessarily using the same interface elements.

Here's a possible contextual pattern that comes out of our research
at UIE:

*Leverage Seducible Moments*

What: create calls to action that occur immediately after someone has
accomplished a task

Use When: Someone has just completed a task (such as reading a news
article or adding an item to a shopping cart) and you have other
valuable options they might consider. If every UI screen has a
particular action associated with it, then there will be a point at
which the user has completed the action and an opportunity for
seduction.

Why: At this point of completion, users have satisfied some part of
their purpose for using the interface, and are more likely to
consider other options. They have had a small success, and are open
to other opportunities such as related information, upselling, or
other similar content.

How: Following a user's flow of interaction, place calls to action
immediately after the completion of a task. Just when they might ask
"what do I do now?", give them something to do.

Examples:

Recommended items in Amazon's Shopping Cart (when you add an item,
they show you recommended products based on that item)
Share this article (we use this extensively at UIE: see the original
article on seducible moments... http://www.uie.com/articles/
seductive_design/ )

Is this the sort of thing that you were thinking, Dave? I can see
this type of pattern being very powerful and a good complement to
interface element libraries.

Cheers,

Josh

On Feb 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, David Malouf wrote:

> having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to
> say that
> I often see another distinction.
>
> Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and
> others
> that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to the
> generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more about
> widget guidelines than actually patterns.
>
> Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something
> I haven't
> seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to
> patterns
> of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
> application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and
> behaviors.
>
> As a design tool, especially doing research for an application
> which is
> where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start
> thinking
> about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would
> first want
> to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the
> more
> classic UI patterns.
>
> -- dave
>

Joshua Porter
jporter at uie.com
Director of Web Development
User Interface Engineering
http://www.uie.com

Personal blog:
http://bokardo.com

________________________________________________________________
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20 Feb 2007 - 9:23am
jbellis
2005

I've repeatedly found that our craft, as with many others, struggles with
the gap between "concept" on one extreme, and specific "function" on the
other. In code, it's "syntax" vs. "example." As practitioners, we obsess
over the concept/syntax level, but our victims couldn't care less about that
level.

The think tank level of "Leverage Seducible Moments" is wonderful stuff, but
the usability successes---sorry, I only care about design because of
usability---and failures of the world are happening because all development
teams do or don't have in front of them an exhaustive list that includes
such things as:
- Suggest Recommended Items
- No Search Results Found (3 items matching 2 of your terms; 7 matching 1
term)
- Add to Wish List
- Printable
- Keywise filtering list

I catalog such stuff and I call it a function tree. For these sort of
things, the name alone is 90% of the value, without even more details of a
"pattern" definition but my point is not to denegrate patterns when the
details or code are helpful.

Do we really need "The 5 Questions" answered for Leverage Seducible Moments?
www.jackbellis.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Welie, Martijn van" <martijn.van.welie at satama.com>

> I personally think that patterns should be very concrete
> solutions to common problems. Joshua's example below would then not
> qualify as a pattern in my definition.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Porter

> *Leverage Seducible Moments*
>
> What: create calls to action that occur immediately after someone has
> accomplished a task

20 Feb 2007 - 10:39am
Joshua Porter
2007

On Feb 20, 2007, at 9:23 AM, jackbellis.com wrote:

> The think tank level of "Leverage Seducible Moments" is wonderful
> stuff, but
> the usability successes---sorry, I only care about design because of
> usability---and failures of the world are happening because all
> development
> teams do or don't have in front of them an exhaustive list...

This is exactly how feature creep happens!

And its the whole reason for patterns, as they explain something
about the situation that helps us figure out when or when not to add
a particular feature.

Josh

Joshua Porter
jporter at uie.com
Director of Web Development
User Interface Engineering
http://www.uie.com

Personal blog:
http://bokardo.com

20 Feb 2007 - 1:10pm
jbellis
2005

Josh,
Feature creep is an implication that a UI is detrimentally cluttered, or an
engineering solution has been made fragile or otherwise unstable, by poor
design or engineering. It's my belief that features are given a bad name
because of unsuccessful design or engineering. One of the most important
reasons that features ruin the engineering is because so much software is
written from scratch, and certainly patterned code is a solution.

And patterns, or any other reusable information, to the extent that it
facilitates better design or engineering is a plus. But I don't agree with
the notion that cataloging features up front is the root cause. With each
passing day, more is built into frameworks, including lots of features, some
'edge,' but of value to particular users. The problem is our way of working
and some UI choices, not the presence of features.

Regards, www.jackbellis.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Porter" <porter at bokardo.com>
To: "discuss" <discuss at ixda.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style Guides?

> On Feb 20, 2007, at 9:23 AM, jackbellis.com wrote:
>
> > The think tank level of "Leverage Seducible Moments" is wonderful
> > stuff, but
> > the usability successes---sorry, I only care about design because of
> > usability---and failures of the world are happening because all
> > development
> > teams do or don't have in front of them an exhaustive list...
>
> This is exactly how feature creep happens!
>
> And its the whole reason for patterns, as they explain something
> about the situation that helps us figure out when or when not to add
> a particular feature.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua Porter
> jporter at uie.com
> Director of Web Development
> User Interface Engineering
> http://www.uie.com
>
> Personal blog:
> http://bokardo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

20 Feb 2007 - 2:00pm
Joshua Porter
2007

You make a good point, Martijn, patterns are the result of a certain
perspective. There seem to be a few different perspectives floating
around...I'll try to explain mine.

To me, the power of Christopher Alexander's patterns are that he
observes patterns in how people live within structures over time,
which gives us insight into how to plan and build them for long
lasting use. But, I would argue, they don't necessarily serve as
concrete solutions and aren't "very strict" in any sense.

For example, the observation that people get better sleep when they
wake with the morning sun (Pattern 138: sleeping to the east) helps
us to plan where to put a room. Alexander suggests putting bedrooms
on the east side of the house so that the natural sun wakens you.
Are there times when you wouldn't want to do that? Sure, most likely
based on the specific context of what you're building. Maybe there's
a stinky cow pasture on the east side, maybe the view is just too
spectacular on the west side, maybe you can cut a skylight into an
existing north-side bedroom...etc. There is no way for Alexander to
write these special cases (and innumerable others) into the pattern,
and so I've never expected a rigor along the lines of what you seem
to suggest.

So, can the placement of something (like in the seducible moment
example as well as the Alexander example) be a concrete solution?
Maybe, for a large number of cases. But there are always
exceptions...always. Even in many of the patterns we come to depend on.

Now, this is just my perspective on patterns. Yours seems more
rigorous. Perhaps this is the similar distinction that Dave made
between Alexander-type patterns and widget-type patterns? Much of
this discussion is his fault anyway. ;)

Cheers,

Josh

On Feb 20, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Welie, Martijn van wrote:

> Well, what can I say. All pattern writers (including me) write their
> patterns from a certain perspective. None of us uses exactly the same
> perspective. I personally think that patterns should be very concrete
> solutions to common problems. Joshua's example below would then not
> qualify as a pattern in my definition. First of all because no actual
> solution is described and it is not clear when this would work and
> when
> not. So that would mean it is no more than a guideline written in a
> pattern format. Ideally a pattern should be very strict in when the
> described solution works and when not. That is what makes writing
> patterns so hard. For example in the example below one may ask when it
> doesn't work? Does it work after shopping only or also in all other
> contexts? What kind of offers should be given? Certainly not items
> that
> are more expensive that the item already bought...and so on.......
>
> I think there is room for guidelines but also principles and widgets.
> Patterns certainly do not solve all problems in this world.
> Nonetheless,
> all of these terms are not very well defined so it is easy to
> mistake a
> pattern for a principle or guideline...hopefully we'll get better at
> this in the future.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martijn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Porter
> Sent: vrijdag 16 februari 2007 17:08
> To: IxD Mailinglist
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
> Guides?
>
> Yeah, Dave, my thoughts exactly. We need contextual
> patterns...patterns that describe contexts that occur over and over
> but not necessarily using the same interface elements.
>
> Here's a possible contextual pattern that comes out of our research
> at UIE:
>
> *Leverage Seducible Moments*
>
> What: create calls to action that occur immediately after someone has
> accomplished a task
>
> Use When: Someone has just completed a task (such as reading a news
> article or adding an item to a shopping cart) and you have other
> valuable options they might consider. If every UI screen has a
> particular action associated with it, then there will be a point at
> which the user has completed the action and an opportunity for
> seduction.
>
> Why: At this point of completion, users have satisfied some part of
> their purpose for using the interface, and are more likely to
> consider other options. They have had a small success, and are open
> to other opportunities such as related information, upselling, or
> other similar content.
>
> How: Following a user's flow of interaction, place calls to action
> immediately after the completion of a task. Just when they might ask
> "what do I do now?", give them something to do.
>
> Examples:
>
> Recommended items in Amazon's Shopping Cart (when you add an item,
> they show you recommended products based on that item)
> Share this article (we use this extensively at UIE: see the original
> article on seducible moments... http://www.uie.com/articles/
> seductive_design/ )
>
>
> Is this the sort of thing that you were thinking, Dave? I can see
> this type of pattern being very powerful and a good complement to
> interface element libraries.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, David Malouf wrote:
>
>> having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to
>> say that
>> I often see another distinction.
>>
>> Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and
>> others
>> that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to
>> the
>> generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more
>> about
>> widget guidelines than actually patterns.
>>
>> Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something
>> I haven't
>> seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to
>> patterns
>> of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
>> application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and
>> behaviors.
>>
>> As a design tool, especially doing research for an application
>> which is
>> where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start
>> thinking
>> about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would
>> first want
>> to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the
>> more
>> classic UI patterns.
>>
>> -- dave
>>
>
>
> Joshua Porter
> jporter at uie.com
> Director of Web Development
> User Interface Engineering
> http://www.uie.com
>
> Personal blog:
> http://bokardo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

Joshua Porter
jporter at uie.com
Director of Web Development
User Interface Engineering
http://www.uie.com

Personal blog:
http://bokardo.com

20 Feb 2007 - 2:25pm
jayeffvee
2007

And so, all -- do you think that never the twain shall meet: the
Alexandrian and Widget-based pattern approaches? Some of you do,
clearly...

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Joshua Porter
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 2:00 PM
To: IxD Mailinglist
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
Guides?

You make a good point, Martijn, patterns are the result of a certain
perspective. There seem to be a few different perspectives floating
around...I'll try to explain mine.

To me, the power of Christopher Alexander's patterns are that he
observes patterns in how people live within structures over time,
which gives us insight into how to plan and build them for long
lasting use. But, I would argue, they don't necessarily serve as
concrete solutions and aren't "very strict" in any sense.

For example, the observation that people get better sleep when they
wake with the morning sun (Pattern 138: sleeping to the east) helps
us to plan where to put a room. Alexander suggests putting bedrooms
on the east side of the house so that the natural sun wakens you.
Are there times when you wouldn't want to do that? Sure, most likely
based on the specific context of what you're building. Maybe there's
a stinky cow pasture on the east side, maybe the view is just too
spectacular on the west side, maybe you can cut a skylight into an
existing north-side bedroom...etc. There is no way for Alexander to
write these special cases (and innumerable others) into the pattern,
and so I've never expected a rigor along the lines of what you seem
to suggest.

So, can the placement of something (like in the seducible moment
example as well as the Alexander example) be a concrete solution?
Maybe, for a large number of cases. But there are always
exceptions...always. Even in many of the patterns we come to depend on.

Now, this is just my perspective on patterns. Yours seems more
rigorous. Perhaps this is the similar distinction that Dave made
between Alexander-type patterns and widget-type patterns? Much of
this discussion is his fault anyway. ;)

Cheers,

Josh

On Feb 20, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Welie, Martijn van wrote:

> Well, what can I say. All pattern writers (including me) write their
> patterns from a certain perspective. None of us uses exactly the same
> perspective. I personally think that patterns should be very concrete
> solutions to common problems. Joshua's example below would then not
> qualify as a pattern in my definition. First of all because no actual
> solution is described and it is not clear when this would work and
> when
> not. So that would mean it is no more than a guideline written in a
> pattern format. Ideally a pattern should be very strict in when the
> described solution works and when not. That is what makes writing
> patterns so hard. For example in the example below one may ask when it
> doesn't work? Does it work after shopping only or also in all other
> contexts? What kind of offers should be given? Certainly not items
> that
> are more expensive that the item already bought...and so on.......
>
> I think there is room for guidelines but also principles and widgets.
> Patterns certainly do not solve all problems in this world.
> Nonetheless,
> all of these terms are not very well defined so it is easy to
> mistake a
> pattern for a principle or guideline...hopefully we'll get better at
> this in the future.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martijn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Porter
> Sent: vrijdag 16 februari 2007 17:08
> To: IxD Mailinglist
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
> Guides?
>
> Yeah, Dave, my thoughts exactly. We need contextual
> patterns...patterns that describe contexts that occur over and over
> but not necessarily using the same interface elements.
>
> Here's a possible contextual pattern that comes out of our research
> at UIE:
>
> *Leverage Seducible Moments*
>
> What: create calls to action that occur immediately after someone has
> accomplished a task
>
> Use When: Someone has just completed a task (such as reading a news
> article or adding an item to a shopping cart) and you have other
> valuable options they might consider. If every UI screen has a
> particular action associated with it, then there will be a point at
> which the user has completed the action and an opportunity for
> seduction.
>
> Why: At this point of completion, users have satisfied some part of
> their purpose for using the interface, and are more likely to
> consider other options. They have had a small success, and are open
> to other opportunities such as related information, upselling, or
> other similar content.
>
> How: Following a user's flow of interaction, place calls to action
> immediately after the completion of a task. Just when they might ask
> "what do I do now?", give them something to do.
>
> Examples:
>
> Recommended items in Amazon's Shopping Cart (when you add an item,
> they show you recommended products based on that item)
> Share this article (we use this extensively at UIE: see the original
> article on seducible moments... http://www.uie.com/articles/
> seductive_design/ )
>
>
> Is this the sort of thing that you were thinking, Dave? I can see
> this type of pattern being very powerful and a good complement to
> interface element libraries.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, David Malouf wrote:
>
>> having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to
>> say that
>> I often see another distinction.
>>
>> Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and
>> others
>> that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to
>> the
>> generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more
>> about
>> widget guidelines than actually patterns.
>>
>> Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something
>> I haven't
>> seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to
>> patterns
>> of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
>> application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and
>> behaviors.
>>
>> As a design tool, especially doing research for an application
>> which is
>> where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start
>> thinking
>> about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would
>> first want
>> to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the
>> more
>> classic UI patterns.
>>
>> -- dave
>>
>
>
> Joshua Porter
> jporter at uie.com
> Director of Web Development
> User Interface Engineering
> http://www.uie.com
>
> Personal blog:
> http://bokardo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

Joshua Porter
jporter at uie.com
Director of Web Development
User Interface Engineering
http://www.uie.com

Personal blog:
http://bokardo.com

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

21 Feb 2007 - 5:00am
Welie, Martijn van
2005

Alexander sure wasn't as strict as I am...;-) The reason I want to do it
differently is because I feel that the difficulties of interaction
design are always in the 'details'. As you can see in my patterns
collection there are many ways to solve a particular design problem. In
choosing the most appropriate solution it is not enough to know the
solutions in general. You need to know exactly where the tipping points
are. Everytime I do a project the issues isn't that I cannot come up
which solutions, the problem is about choosing the right one!

I don't claim that I have been able to add all necessary detail to my
patterns yet. But it sure is my goal. Alexander had other goals and was
trying to describe 'architecture' solely in terms of patterns. I see no
need to do that for interaction design. As interaction designers we need
to make a lot of detailed choices...

Let me give an example. Suppose that you are design a shopping process.
So you have to create shopping cart and a checkout process. But shopping
carts come in different flavours. When do you choose for a Mini Cart on
every page while you shop? What does that depend on? Do you cross sell
on the product page or in the shopping cart or after purchasing? Or
perhaps all of them? What are the risks involved? When will
cross-selling the shopping cart backfire and when not? And if you
cross-sell, how do you determine which products should be offered? Do
you require people to register before the checkout process or not? Or
perhaps already when they put things in the shopping cart? When is it
better not to require registration at all? When do you remember customer
login details in cookies and when not? When would you only remember the
user name and when do you do an auto-login? How do you deal with
products that can only be together but users are allowed to choose
either product first (e.g. phones and subscriptions) but pricing for
combinations are complex and restricted? How do you deal with one-off
costs vs recurring costs. And so on....

These are the kind of questions we need to be able to answer as
Interaction Designers! I can't answer them all in detail...:-( But our
customers are expecting us to have answers to these questions! I think
we still have a long way to go as Interaction Designers...

Guidelines such as "leverage a positive moment for cross-selling" may
give designers some highlevel direction but as soon as they will apply
it, they will enter the 'swamp'....From my perspective it is just a
guideline and as such it is fine. That is why there is room for
guidelines and principles. And yes, some of Alexander's patterns are
merely guidelines from my perspective as they don't provide a concrete
enough solution....

Cheers,

Martijn

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Joshua Porter
Sent: dinsdag 20 februari 2007 20:00
To: IxD Mailinglist
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
Guides?

You make a good point, Martijn, patterns are the result of a certain
perspective. There seem to be a few different perspectives floating
around...I'll try to explain mine.

To me, the power of Christopher Alexander's patterns are that he
observes patterns in how people live within structures over time,
which gives us insight into how to plan and build them for long
lasting use. But, I would argue, they don't necessarily serve as
concrete solutions and aren't "very strict" in any sense.

For example, the observation that people get better sleep when they
wake with the morning sun (Pattern 138: sleeping to the east) helps
us to plan where to put a room. Alexander suggests putting bedrooms
on the east side of the house so that the natural sun wakens you.
Are there times when you wouldn't want to do that? Sure, most likely
based on the specific context of what you're building. Maybe there's
a stinky cow pasture on the east side, maybe the view is just too
spectacular on the west side, maybe you can cut a skylight into an
existing north-side bedroom...etc. There is no way for Alexander to
write these special cases (and innumerable others) into the pattern,
and so I've never expected a rigor along the lines of what you seem
to suggest.

So, can the placement of something (like in the seducible moment
example as well as the Alexander example) be a concrete solution?
Maybe, for a large number of cases. But there are always
exceptions...always. Even in many of the patterns we come to depend on.

Now, this is just my perspective on patterns. Yours seems more
rigorous. Perhaps this is the similar distinction that Dave made
between Alexander-type patterns and widget-type patterns? Much of
this discussion is his fault anyway. ;)

Cheers,

Josh

On Feb 20, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Welie, Martijn van wrote:

> Well, what can I say. All pattern writers (including me) write their
> patterns from a certain perspective. None of us uses exactly the same
> perspective. I personally think that patterns should be very concrete
> solutions to common problems. Joshua's example below would then not
> qualify as a pattern in my definition. First of all because no actual
> solution is described and it is not clear when this would work and
> when
> not. So that would mean it is no more than a guideline written in a
> pattern format. Ideally a pattern should be very strict in when the
> described solution works and when not. That is what makes writing
> patterns so hard. For example in the example below one may ask when it
> doesn't work? Does it work after shopping only or also in all other
> contexts? What kind of offers should be given? Certainly not items
> that
> are more expensive that the item already bought...and so on.......
>
> I think there is room for guidelines but also principles and widgets.
> Patterns certainly do not solve all problems in this world.
> Nonetheless,
> all of these terms are not very well defined so it is easy to
> mistake a
> pattern for a principle or guideline...hopefully we'll get better at
> this in the future.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martijn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Porter
> Sent: vrijdag 16 februari 2007 17:08
> To: IxD Mailinglist
> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Request: Online Pattern Libraries/Style
> Guides?
>
> Yeah, Dave, my thoughts exactly. We need contextual
> patterns...patterns that describe contexts that occur over and over
> but not necessarily using the same interface elements.
>
> Here's a possible contextual pattern that comes out of our research
> at UIE:
>
> *Leverage Seducible Moments*
>
> What: create calls to action that occur immediately after someone has
> accomplished a task
>
> Use When: Someone has just completed a task (such as reading a news
> article or adding an item to a shopping cart) and you have other
> valuable options they might consider. If every UI screen has a
> particular action associated with it, then there will be a point at
> which the user has completed the action and an opportunity for
> seduction.
>
> Why: At this point of completion, users have satisfied some part of
> their purpose for using the interface, and are more likely to
> consider other options. They have had a small success, and are open
> to other opportunities such as related information, upselling, or
> other similar content.
>
> How: Following a user's flow of interaction, place calls to action
> immediately after the completion of a task. Just when they might ask
> "what do I do now?", give them something to do.
>
> Examples:
>
> Recommended items in Amazon's Shopping Cart (when you add an item,
> they show you recommended products based on that item)
> Share this article (we use this extensively at UIE: see the original
> article on seducible moments... http://www.uie.com/articles/
> seductive_design/ )
>
>
> Is this the sort of thing that you were thinking, Dave? I can see
> this type of pattern being very powerful and a good complement to
> interface element libraries.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, David Malouf wrote:
>
>> having not looked at ALL the libraries listed so far, I do have to
>> say that
>> I often see another distinction.
>>
>> Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and
>> others
>> that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to
>> the
>> generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more
>> about
>> widget guidelines than actually patterns.
>>
>> Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something
>> I haven't
>> seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to
>> patterns
>> of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
>> application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and
>> behaviors.
>>
>> As a design tool, especially doing research for an application
>> which is
>> where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start
>> thinking
>> about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would
>> first want
>> to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the
>> more
>> classic UI patterns.
>>
>> -- dave
>>
>
>
> Joshua Porter
> jporter at uie.com
> Director of Web Development
> User Interface Engineering
> http://www.uie.com
>
> Personal blog:
> http://bokardo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

Joshua Porter
jporter at uie.com
Director of Web Development
User Interface Engineering
http://www.uie.com

Personal blog:
http://bokardo.com

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

12 Apr 2007 - 7:53pm
Christian Crumlish
2006

Now that I've sorted out my email foolishness, I will with the list's
indulgence post the *four* replies to messages in this thread. I
considered bundling them up together but one is particularly long...
(sigh).

No. 1:
- Hide quoted text -

I've been meaning to reply to this thread for, well, months now!

On 2/15/07, Joe Davidchik <skyburn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dan we are looking to create a hybrid of Yahoo and
>
> http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/blaf/specs/index.html
>
> Also, put it in wiki.

We welcome this at Yahoo. The public version of our library is
published with a Creative Commons license and we encourage people to
create mashups, taking what they find useful from the YPL and
augmenting it with specific new patterns they find useful.

I also anticipate that we will include in the YPL pointers to
exemplary patterns in other libraries and repositories in lieu of
trying to "reinvent the wheel" entirely ourselves (which would, of
course, be contrary to the spirit of pattern languages).

Before I took over the curator role from Bill Scott he had been
talking with other pattern library curators about creating some sort
of meta-library embracing everything out there. I'm not sure exactly
how this might work, but it's intriguing.

Dave Malouf mentioned that Jenifer Tidwell's book is not free, but of
course the companion site derived from her original site itself
comprises a free design pattern library.

-xian-

--
Christian Crumlish
Curator, Yahoo! Pattern Library

12 Apr 2007 - 7:57pm
Christian Crumlish
2006

No. 2...

On 2/16/07, David Malouf <dave.ixd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Collections that respect the C. Alexander concept of patterns and others
> that think of a pattern as a widget type. These often correlate to the
> generic/corporate, but I've seen generic libraries that are more about
> widget guidelines than actually patterns.

I've noticed something similar, although I might phrase it
differently. I originally encountered pattern thinking somewhere in
the middle of the Alexander et al. (architecture) to Gang of Four et
al. (programming) to Tidwell et al. (interaction design) sequence,when
I stumbled on Ward's Wiki (a.k.a., the Portland Pattern Repository,
http://c2.com/ppr/).

The patterns gathered there are definitely of the conceptual type,
fairly analogous to the Alexander patterns. A brief overview of the
origin of that line of thought can be found here:
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?HistoryOfPatterns

When the pattern metaphor made its way into the interaction design
realm it seemed to become a bit more concrete, more focused on
specific forms and contexts and interaction and even - as Malouf put
it - on the widget level.

Tidwell's patterns still retain some of the conceptual abstraction but
already they are expressed in terms of specific interface moments and
functionalities. Most of the other interaction design pattern
libraries feature patterns that are tied directly to interface elements.

Something might getting lost along the way. Do we want a pattern for
enabling the user to choose a single item from a list of items, a
pattern for radio buttons, or a pattern for enabling users to make
choices in general?

Inspired by most of the pattern libraries that have come before it,
the Yahoo Design Pattern Library nonetheless features patterns that
are squarely focused on specific interaction contexts. Bill Scott's
Ajax patterns are grouped in some cases into pattern language-like
clusters, such as "invitations," etc., but I do wonder if we could be
raising it up a bit on the abstraction scale and creating more value.

Having said that, I have also encountered in my brief tenure so far
curating the YPL, an overwhelming level of interest in, gratitude for,
and support of the current library from practicing IxDs and IAs and
product managers in the field, so I hesitate to come into something
that "ain't broke" and start trying to fix it.

I've been meeting recently with folks from the Hillside group
(http://hillside.net/), a nonprofit dedicated to pattern languages as
a way of making software better, and I believe my discussions may help
sort out some choices about future directions of the Yahoo library.

Interestingly, the group that formed Hillside themselves early on met
a forking road, as they debated a difference between what they call
descriptive or observational (or Gamma - named after Erich Gamma)
patterns and generative or creational patterns more closely in the
spirit of Alexander.

Many of the object-oriented/XP design (in the sense of software
design) patterns (and antipatterns) are highly metaphorical - Big Ball
of Mud, Throwaway Code, Keep it Working, Piecemeal Growth,
Reconstruction, Shearing Layers - and process oriented.

> Something that I'm hoping to deliver a paper on soon, is something I haven't
> seen yet at all which are patterns of use and context as opposed to patterns
> of solution. Almost all pattern libraries out there describe
> application/device solutions and don't focus on user goals and behaviors.

When Bill Scott reorganized the internal Yahoo library in anticipation
of the public release, he initially sorted the patterns into two
buckets, essentially "user wants to..." (or "user needs to") and
"system wants to" (or "designer wants/needs..."), so while the YPL
definitely offers solution oriented patterns (where I might rather see
some process or principle oriented patterns - although again I'm not
sure that's what the "customers" of the library would want), they are
at the very least presented in terms of user goals and behaviors.

> As a design tool, especially doing research for an application which is
> where I find patterns to actually be most useful, before I start thinking
> about classic pattern libraries like the ones presented, I would first want
> to see a pattern library on uses and contexts to help me derive the more
> classic UI patterns.

Please keep up posted on this research. Perhaps you will instigate a
formalization of a classic UI pattern language?

-xian-

12 Apr 2007 - 7:59pm
Christian Crumlish
2006

No. 3:

On 2/16/07, Joshua Porter <porter at bokardo.com> wrote:
> Yeah, Dave, my thoughts exactly. We need contextual
> patterns...patterns that describe contexts that occur over and over
> but not necessarily using the same interface elements.
>
> Here's a possible contextual pattern that comes out of our research
> at UIE:
>
> *Leverage Seducible Moments*

...

I'd like to see more of these. Perhaps a group of people would like to
brainstorm them collaboratively? I'd be happy to participate in such
an effort.

One thing Bill and the YUI folks (Nate Koechley and others) developed
when writing Ajax patterns and releasing the associated code libraries
is a sort of checklist of "interesting moments" that the interaction
designer needs to consider when thinking about opportunities and
requirements for rich interactions. Currently, we have a sort of grid
we use for looking at these moments. We haven't pushed this document
or its method into the public library but I'd be interested in finding
a useful way to do that.

I think these "moments" are still somewhat more mundane/tactical when
compared to the seducible moment mentioned above, which is more of a
type or class of moment than an instant in a rich interaction flow.

-x-

12 Apr 2007 - 8:00pm
Christian Crumlish
2006

Re-send No. 4 (and last, I promise):

I am no doubt wearing out my welcome in this thread, if not in the
list as a whole.

On 2/17/07, Peter Boersma <peter at peterboersma.com> wrote:
>
> Then the generic question:
> Another distinction is that between design patterns and design process patterns. Adding design process attributes to patterns expands the focus of patterns to include the context of design. I wrote more about this last year on my blog:
>
> "Processes + Patterns = ?"
> http://www.peterboersma.com/blog/2006/08/processes-patterns.html
>
> and:
>
> "Adding design process attributes to patterns"
> http://www.peterboersma.com/blog/2006/08/adding-design-process-attributes-to.html

Excellent references! I'm very interested in the process perspective,
because while it may be useful to find a solution to a problem you are
about to tackle, it could be infinitely more useful to have a set of
rules and processes that tend to help solve problems in general.
That's my sense of how the patterns in Ward's Wiki work. They document
practices and processes that yield good results (as well as
antipatterns that lead to failure and despair).

I've wondered also about whether to include antipatterns in the Yahoo
library. For now we just talk about exceptions and caveats attached to
the (positive) patterns.

Another question of taxonomy (perhaps better for an IA list, heh) is
how to handle things like mobile patterns - as an entirely different
library list, as Welie does, as variations on "main" patterns, as
another navigational dimension or facet?

--
Christian Crumlish
http://xianlandia.com/

Pattern Detective, Yahoo!
http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/

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