what control to use?

2 May 2007 - 10:59am
7 years ago
14 replies
1040 reads
Valerie Gomez d...
2006

Hello all,

I am working on a project that requires the ability to assign a user in the
system to a role. There are three roles to choose from and each role
provides rights to certain screens and tools.
If you choose the third role, you also need to select from a list of rights
that user will have. Note: this is something that will not happen often.

Something like this....

( ) role one
( ) role two
(.) role three
[] right 1
[] right 2
[] right 3
[] right 4
[] right 5

As you can see, I need ideas as to how to better present this to the user.

Thank you,
Valerie

Comments

2 May 2007 - 11:08am
Jack L. Moffett
2005

Valerie,

Can a user be assigned to multiple roles?
Can a user in role 3 have multiple rights?

On May 2, 2007, at 11:59 AM, Valerie Gomez de la Torre wrote:

> I am working on a project that requires the ability to assign a
> user in the
> system to a role. There are three roles to choose from and each role
> provides rights to certain screens and tools.
> If you choose the third role, you also need to select from a list
> of rights
> that user will have. Note: this is something that will not happen
> often.
>
> Something like this....
>
> ( ) role one
> ( ) role two
> (.) role three
> [] right 1
> [] right 2
> [] right 3
> [] right 4
> [] right 5

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

If there's anything more annoying
than a machine that won't do what you want,
it's a machine that won't do what you want
and has been programmed to behave
as though it likes you.

- Don Norman

2 May 2007 - 11:11am
Valerie Gomez d...
2006

Hi Jack -

Can a user be assigned to multiple roles? No
Can a user in role 3 have multiple rights? Yes

Thanks!

2 May 2007 - 11:13am
Dan Saffer
2003

On May 2, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Valerie Gomez de la Torre wrote:

> Something like this....
>
> ( ) role one
> ( ) role two
> (.) role three
> [] right 1
> [] right 2
> [] right 3
> [] right 4
> [] right 5
>

If role three and its accompanying rights are seldom used, why not
simply hide the rights until role three is chosen? I have no idea
what platform you are talking about or the screen real estate you
have to work with, but I can think of a number of ways to reveal and
hide a small panel like this. But radio buttons for the roles and
check boxes for the rights (as you've shown here) seem to make sense.

Dan

2 May 2007 - 11:18am
Valerie Gomez d...
2006

Hi Dan,
Thanks for the feedback:) Can you expand on some of your ideas on how to
hide the list of check boxes? Keep in mind that their may be up to 20 rights
for role 3. Also it is possible that this will be on it's own page - so a
lot of room to play with.
Thanks again!

>
>
> If role three and its accompanying rights are seldom used, why not
> simply hide the rights until role three is chosen? I have no idea
> what platform you are talking about or the screen real estate you
> have to work with, but I can think of a number of ways to reveal and
> hide a small panel like this. But radio buttons for the roles and
> check boxes for the rights (as you've shown here) seem to make sense.
>
> Dan
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
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>

2 May 2007 - 11:45am
Dan Saffer
2003

On May 2, 2007, at 9:18 AM, Valerie Gomez de la Torre wrote:

> Can you expand on some of your ideas on how to hide the list of
> check boxes? Keep in mind that their may be up to 20 rights for
> role 3. Also it is possible that this will be on it's own page - so
> a lot of room to play with.
>

Off the top of my head: If there is space beneath the third option,
a panel could simply open there, displaying the options in rows and
pushing down your Submit button (which I'm assuming comes after this)
lower on the page. That's probably your best bet. Or the rights could
appear in a floating window next to the option. Or, if space is
limited, the ugly solution would be the appearance of a multiple-
select list widget. I'm sure there are others, plus variations on how
the panels appear (fade in, slide in, etc.)

Dan

2 May 2007 - 11:58am
Jack L. Moffett
2005

On May 2, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Valerie Gomez de la Torre wrote:

> Keep in mind that their may be up to 20 rights
> for role 3.

I guess I would first decide whether or not there is value in the
role 3 rights being visible before role three is selected. For
example, would the user see the rights and say, "Oh, I need a few of
these." and then choose role 3? If this is the case, it may be
preferable to have them displayed, but disabled. Otherwise, I'd go
with Dan's suggestion:

> If there is space beneath the third option,
> a panel could simply open there, displaying the options in rows and
> pushing down your Submit button (which I'm assuming comes after this)
> lower on the page.

If you use a pop-up, you may want to include a readout of the
selected rights below the role 3 selection. Of course, this could
become a space issue if they select a lot of rights.

Another thing to keep in mind is the future of your application. Are
these options likely to change? Might the first two roles end up
having rights lists associated with them as well? Thinking about how
it will scale may influence your decisions now.

Jack

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

I am in search of the
simple elegant seductive
maybe even obvious IDEA.
With this in my pocket
I cannot fail.

- Tibor Kalman

2 May 2007 - 12:38pm
Valerie Gomez d...
2006

wonderful ideas, everyone. thank you so much. you have given me more to take
back to the team. thanks again!
cheers - valerie

On 5/2/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
>
>
> On May 2, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Valerie Gomez de la Torre wrote:
>
> > Keep in mind that their may be up to 20 rights
> > for role 3.
>
>
> I guess I would first decide whether or not there is value in the
> role 3 rights being visible before role three is selected. For
> example, would the user see the rights and say, "Oh, I need a few of
> these." and then choose role 3? If this is the case, it may be
> preferable to have them displayed, but disabled. Otherwise, I'd go
> with Dan's suggestion:
>
> > If there is space beneath the third option,
> > a panel could simply open there, displaying the options in rows and
> > pushing down your Submit button (which I'm assuming comes after this)
> > lower on the page.
>
>
> If you use a pop-up, you may want to include a readout of the
> selected rights below the role 3 selection. Of course, this could
> become a space issue if they select a lot of rights.
>
> Another thing to keep in mind is the future of your application. Are
> these options likely to change? Might the first two roles end up
> having rights lists associated with them as well? Thinking about how
> it will scale may influence your decisions now.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Jack L. Moffett
> Interaction Designer
> inmedius
> 412.459.0310 x219
> http://www.inmedius.com
>
> I am in search of the
> simple elegant seductive
> maybe even obvious IDEA.
> With this in my pocket
> I cannot fail.
>
> - Tibor Kalman
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

2 May 2007 - 2:31pm
cfmdesigns
2004

If you're concerned about the space required, maybe something like this:

( ) role one
( ) role two
( ) role three <? icon>

<?> show a tooltip: "You will choose the rights associated with this role next"

(Or other means of showing that there's another step coming for choice #3.)

Then you show the Rights on the next page (if they chose #3), or make them appear further ndown the current page when they choose #3.

Since there are potentially lots of rights attached to #3, but none for the other two, showing the list of rights can be either confusing (why does this choice gets all those but the others do not) or scary (jeez, I don't want to choose that one and do all that work!). Revealing that there is s more to come with that one but not what/how much there is would probably be a good thing.

-- Jim

-----Original Message-----
>From: Valerie Gomez de la Torre <valeriegomez at gmail.com>
>Sent: May 2, 2007 8:59 AM
>To: IxDA <discuss at ixda.org>
>Subject: [IxDA Discuss] what control to use?
>
>Hello all,
>
>I am working on a project that requires the ability to assign a user in the
>system to a role. There are three roles to choose from and each role
>provides rights to certain screens and tools.
>If you choose the third role, you also need to select from a list of rights
>that user will have. Note: this is something that will not happen often.
>
>Something like this....
>
>( ) role one
>( ) role two
>(.) role three
> [] right 1
> [] right 2
> [] right 3
> [] right 4
> [] right 5
>
>
>As you can see, I need ideas as to how to better present this to the user.
>
>Thank you,
>Valerie
>________________________________________________________________
>Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
>List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
>(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
>Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
>Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
>Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
>Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

2 May 2007 - 3:36pm
Alexander Baxevanis
2007

If there are up to 20 rights it can be annoying and potentially error
prone to make users tick a number of check boxes. Do you really need
all these rights? Is it possible (based on the underlying business
logic) that if User X has right #12 he will also probably need right
#17? It's worth having a close look and check if you can simplify the
selection by grouping some rights or giving some sensible defaults.

On 5/2/07, Valerie Gomez de la Torre <valeriegomez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> Thanks for the feedback:) Can you expand on some of your ideas on how to
> hide the list of check boxes? Keep in mind that their may be up to 20 rights
> for role 3. Also it is possible that this will be on it's own page - so a
> lot of room to play with.
> Thanks again!
>
>
> >
> >
> > If role three and its accompanying rights are seldom used, why not
> > simply hide the rights until role three is chosen? I have no idea
> > what platform you are talking about or the screen real estate you
> > have to work with, but I can think of a number of ways to reveal and
> > hide a small panel like this. But radio buttons for the roles and
> > check boxes for the rights (as you've shown here) seem to make sense.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

2 May 2007 - 3:45pm
jayeffvee
2007

I guess I was wondering why you can't have a back end do the work for
the user -- know who he/she is, serve up only what's relevant... Unless
the application is specifically meant to be used to assign rights, as a
one time, or a periodical thing?

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Alexander Baxevanis
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:37 PM
To: Valerie Gomez de la Torre
Cc: IxDA Discuss
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] what control to use?

If there are up to 20 rights it can be annoying and potentially error
prone to make users tick a number of check boxes. Do you really need
all these rights? Is it possible (based on the underlying business
logic) that if User X has right #12 he will also probably need right
#17? It's worth having a close look and check if you can simplify the
selection by grouping some rights or giving some sensible defaults.

On 5/2/07, Valerie Gomez de la Torre <valeriegomez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> Thanks for the feedback:) Can you expand on some of your ideas on how
to
> hide the list of check boxes? Keep in mind that their may be up to 20
rights
> for role 3. Also it is possible that this will be on it's own page -
so a
> lot of room to play with.
> Thanks again!
>
>
> >
> >
> > If role three and its accompanying rights are seldom used, why not
> > simply hide the rights until role three is chosen? I have no idea
> > what platform you are talking about or the screen real estate you
> > have to work with, but I can think of a number of ways to reveal and
> > hide a small panel like this. But radio buttons for the roles and
> > check boxes for the rights (as you've shown here) seem to make
sense.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> > List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> > (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> > Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> > Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> > Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

2 May 2007 - 4:19pm
Marijke Rijsberman
2004

All of the responses here suggest that users would know what rights they
need. I can imagine that that's possible.

However, as a sidelight, in all of my contact with users, that has never
been a safe assumption. Roles are typically defined in terms of system
functionality rather than in terms of the jobs that people have, and it
causes a great deal of confusion. People tell me stuff like, "I don't know
what rights I need. It's soooo frustrating. I have to go in and request
something and then it turns out it's not what I need. Then everybody is
pissed off. I still don't have access. I have to redo the form. The guys in
the data center have to set me up all over again. But all I know is that I
want what Valerie has, because I have to do what Valerie does, whatever it's
called."

This is particularly true when they are new users and are ipso facto not
familiar with the system.

marijke

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Valerie
Gomez de la Torre
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:38 AM
To: Jack Moffett
Cc: IxDA list
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] what control to use?

wonderful ideas, everyone. thank you so much. you have given me more to take
back to the team. thanks again!
cheers - valerie

On 5/2/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
>
>
> On May 2, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Valerie Gomez de la Torre wrote:
>
> > Keep in mind that their may be up to 20 rights
> > for role 3.
>
>
> I guess I would first decide whether or not there is value in the
> role 3 rights being visible before role three is selected. For
> example, would the user see the rights and say, "Oh, I need a few of
> these." and then choose role 3? If this is the case, it may be
> preferable to have them displayed, but disabled. Otherwise, I'd go
> with Dan's suggestion:
>
> > If there is space beneath the third option,
> > a panel could simply open there, displaying the options in rows and
> > pushing down your Submit button (which I'm assuming comes after this)
> > lower on the page.
>
>
> If you use a pop-up, you may want to include a readout of the
> selected rights below the role 3 selection. Of course, this could
> become a space issue if they select a lot of rights.
>
> Another thing to keep in mind is the future of your application. Are
> these options likely to change? Might the first two roles end up
> having rights lists associated with them as well? Thinking about how
> it will scale may influence your decisions now.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Jack L. Moffett
> Interaction Designer
> inmedius
> 412.459.0310 x219
> http://www.inmedius.com
>
> I am in search of the
> simple elegant seductive
> maybe even obvious IDEA.
> With this in my pocket
> I cannot fail.
>
> - Tibor Kalman
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

2 May 2007 - 4:30pm
Valerie Gomez d...
2006

Joan - good question. Here is an example...

Say you have a House (just wait...:) ) and the House is full of N Rooms.

You need to assign certain people access to manage all rooms (House Mgr),
some to manage specific rooms (Room Mgr) (1 or more) and others cannot
manage any of the rooms (None).

So you have:
( ) none
( ) House Manager
( ) Room Manager
[ ] room 1
[ ] room 2
[ ] room 3....

And yes, this is a web app.

Thanks again everyone. I feel very validated :)

Val

On 5/2/07, Vermette, Joan <Joan.Vermette at fmr.com> wrote:
>
> I guess I was wondering why you can't have a back end do the work for
> the user -- know who he/she is, serve up only what's relevant... Unless
> the application is specifically meant to be used to assign rights, as a
> one time, or a periodical thing?
>
>

2 May 2007 - 5:25pm
Dan Saffer
2003

On May 2, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Marijke Rijsberman wrote:

> All of the responses here suggest that users would know what rights
> they
> need. I can imagine that that's possible.
>
> However, as a sidelight, in all of my contact with users, that has
> never
> been a safe assumption.
>

This sounds like an admin screen for assigning users permissions to
do things, not a user self-selecting privileges. At least, that was
the assumption I was operating under.

Dan

2 May 2007 - 9:56pm
Valerie Gomez d...
2006

Dan - you are correct. Thanks again!

On 5/2/07, Dan Saffer <dan at odannyboy.com> wrote:
>
>
> On May 2, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Marijke Rijsberman wrote:
>
> > All of the responses here suggest that users would know what rights
> > they
> > need. I can imagine that that's possible.
> >
> > However, as a sidelight, in all of my contact with users, that has
> > never
> > been a safe assumption.
> >
>
> This sounds like an admin screen for assigning users permissions to
> do things, not a user self-selecting privileges. At least, that was
> the assumption I was operating under.
>
> Dan
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://listguide.ixda.org/
> List Help .................. http://listhelp.ixda.org/
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

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