throwing out some knowledge to the group...

31 Aug 2007 - 4:39pm
7 years ago
4 replies
942 reads
skyburn
2005

... particularly in a hungry market.

I was recently put in the position where I was asked to sign something
saying that I was not allowed to go to work for a "competitor" for 6
months after leaving the company.

Lucky for me being in California this is totally non-binding.

-----

+ BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE SECTION 16600-16607

16600. Except as provided in this chapter, every contract by which
anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or
business of any kind is to that extent void.

-----

-Joe

Comments

31 Aug 2007 - 5:10pm
Chauncey Wilson
2007

Hi Joe,

You are lucky. My wife is an IP attorney and just told me that California
has perhaps the weakest non-competes laws in the country; in most states,
non-competes can range from 6 months to 2 years and contrary to some urban
myths, non-competes are enforceable in most states.

Chauncey

On 8/31/07, Joe Davidchik <skyburn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ... particularly in a hungry market.
>
> I was recently put in the position where I was asked to sign something
> saying that I was not allowed to go to work for a "competitor" for 6
> months after leaving the company.
>
> Lucky for me being in California this is totally non-binding.
>
> -----
>
> + BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE SECTION 16600-16607
>
>
> 16600. Except as provided in this chapter, every contract by which
> anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or
> business of any kind is to that extent void.
>
> -----
>
> -Joe
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

2 Sep 2007 - 1:16pm
M S
2006

I don't think anyone should be signing these kind of contracts, regardless
of whether, like us, your state protects you. Everyone has the right to work
and NO COMPANY should have legal means to prevent you from making a living,
regardless of if it is a competitor or not. You have certain unalienable
rights, and I think this should be considered one of them. It is ridiculous.
Anyone have links to examples of this being upheld? The only time I have
read about it is when trade secrets are involved.

Thoughts?

_________________________________________________________________
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2 Sep 2007 - 9:33pm
Chauncey Wilson
2007

On 9/2/07, M S <mark_sloan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think anyone should be signing these kind of contracts, regardless
> of whether, like us, your state protects you. Everyone has the right to
> work
> and NO COMPANY should have legal means to prevent you from making a
> living,
> regardless of if it is a competitor or not. You have certain unalienable
> rights, and I think this should be considered one of them. It is
> ridiculous.
> Anyone have links to examples of this being upheld? The only time I have
> read about it is when trade secrets are involved.
>
> Thoughts?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are a few links to cases involving non-competes including an
interesting cases where a person moved to LA to work with a competitor. Many
cases with senior people do go to court and some are overturned and some are
not. There are now clauses in some of the licenses for software products
that state that you won't hire people you know from the company. I know if
one cases where a company wouldn't buy the software until that clause had
been purged. There is a legal balance between the right to work for
PARTICULAR employers and the protection of the company's trade secrets and
investment in particular people. Consider if you were a 5 person firm and
your chief software architect left to work for your most determined
competitor just as you were about to release the beta of your product. Your
architect could in most cases work for thousands of other employers, but not
your direct competitor. One solution (I think that Whitney may have
mentioned this earlier) is to ask an employer to provide a list of the
companies they feel are major competitors and have them include that in an
addendum to the employee agreement. About 10 years ago, I did just that and
it turned out that there were only two companies on the non-compete. If the
non-compete is too general, that could be harmful and you should negotiate
with your employer.

A few links dealing with non-competes (and challenges to them) are listed
below. Frankly, employee agreements should be read carefully and if you see
anything odd should be reviewed by someone with contract or legal
experience.

Chauncey

http://www.memag.com/memag/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=257400

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2002/12/30/story3.html
(interesting case about a non-California company enforcing a non-compete
with a person who wanted to work for an LA competitor). It also notes that
CA makes most non-competes illegal in the high-tech area.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=mn&vol=appunpub%5C0208%5C783&invol=1

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/articlepdf/327.pdf?CFID=32759361&CFTOKEN=19733666&jsessionid=9a3083c134be6469382f

http://www.gdhm.com/the_firm/news/article/?ID=77

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:B4mKs2ugu3sJ:www.armstrongteasdale.com/News-Publications/ClientAlerts/NewDevelopmentsInNon-CompeteLaw_April7-04.pdf+noncompete+court+cases&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft(r) Office Live!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>
>

2 Sep 2007 - 10:58pm
Nasir Barday
2006

No-competes are big in the finance industry. Most banks will escort an
employee out of the building as soon as one tells the employer he/she's been
hired by a competitor. The silver lining: a hiring firm will usually build 6
months (or whatever the non-compete "memory flushing" period is) of vacation
into an offer package, preceding the first day of work.

Anyway, that's how at least one industry deals with no-competes in a hungry
market.

- Nasir

On 9/2/07, Chauncey Wilson <chauncey.wilson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/2/07, M S <mark_sloan at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think anyone should be signing these kind of contracts,
> regardless
> > of whether, like us, your state protects you. Everyone has the right to
> > work
> > and NO COMPANY should have legal means to prevent you from making a
> > living,
> > regardless of if it is a competitor or not. You have certain unalienable
> > rights, and I think this should be considered one of them. It is
> > ridiculous.
> > Anyone have links to examples of this being upheld? The only time I have
> > read about it is when trade secrets are involved.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here are a few links to cases involving non-competes including an
> interesting cases where a person moved to LA to work with a competitor.
> Many
> cases with senior people do go to court and some are overturned and some
> are
> not. There are now clauses in some of the licenses for software products
> that state that you won't hire people you know from the company. I know
> if
> one cases where a company wouldn't buy the software until that clause had
> been purged. There is a legal balance between the right to work for
> PARTICULAR employers and the protection of the company's trade secrets and
> investment in particular people. Consider if you were a 5 person firm and
> your chief software architect left to work for your most determined
> competitor just as you were about to release the beta of your
> product. Your
> architect could in most cases work for thousands of other employers, but
> not
> your direct competitor. One solution (I think that Whitney may have
> mentioned this earlier) is to ask an employer to provide a list of the
> companies they feel are major competitors and have them include that in an
> addendum to the employee agreement. About 10 years ago, I did just that
> and
> it turned out that there were only two companies on the non-compete. If
> the
> non-compete is too general, that could be harmful and you should negotiate
> with your employer.
>
> A few links dealing with non-competes (and challenges to them) are listed
> below. Frankly, employee agreements should be read carefully and if you
> see
> anything odd should be reviewed by someone with contract or legal
> experience.
>
> Chauncey
>
> http://www.memag.com/memag/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=257400
>
> http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2002/12/30/story3.html
> (interesting case about a non-California company enforcing a non-compete
> with a person who wanted to work for an LA competitor). It also notes
> that
> CA makes most non-competes illegal in the high-tech area.
>
>
> http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=mn&vol=appunpub%5C0208%5C783&invol=1
>
>
> http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/articlepdf/327.pdf?CFID=32759361&CFTOKEN=19733666&jsessionid=9a3083c134be6469382f
>
> http://www.gdhm.com/the_firm/news/article/?ID=77
>
>
> http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:B4mKs2ugu3sJ:www.armstrongteasdale.com/News-Publications/ClientAlerts/NewDevelopmentsInNon-CompeteLaw_April7-04.pdf+noncompete+court+cases&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&ie=UTF-8
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft(r) Office
> Live!
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> > Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> List Guidelines ............ http://beta.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://beta.ixda.org/help
> Unsubscribe ................ http://beta.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> Questions .................. list at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://beta.ixda.org
>

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