Kindle

19 Nov 2007 - 12:26pm
6 years ago
29 replies
335 reads
Jack L. Moffett
2005

Amazon has released the Kindle, their electronic book device. This is
a very interesting product. My initial reactions:

It's the right size/weight. I didn't like the industrial design of it
at first (too antiseptic?), but it's growing on me. I can't imagine
enjoying sitting down with it as much as I do a book made of paper,
but then, once you get into the story, maybe the object you are
holding doesn't matter so much.

On the other hand, there are several things that really appeal to me,
like the ability to search your content, the ability to annotate
(without defacing the book), and bookmarking.

They've done some really smart things, such as including the wireless
service in the fee for the product, rather than requiring a separate,
monthly fee or service contract. You can read the first chapter of any
book for free before purchasing. It handles magazine and newspaper
subscriptions. It also will display blog content, but is limited to
some specific set of blogs, and this comes at an extra fee. They also
charge a fee to put your own documents on the device (via email).

As for the UI, call me spoiled, but their selection wheel with the
separated selection indicator bar seems disconnected. Having had an
iPhone for over a month now, I would want the ability to select things
by tapping them on the screen. Even without a touchscreen, why can't
the selection be shown within the content display, rather than in a
separate display beside it.

I like that they made the next/previous buttons available on both
sides, but made the previous button significantly larger on the left,
and the next button larger on the right. Still, I want to flip pages
with a horizontal swipe of my finger.

Using a grayscale display makes sense for reading books, but when it
comes to magazines, blogs, and even newspapers, color would be
desirable.

What do you all think?

Jack

Jack L. Moffett
Interaction Designer
inmedius
412.459.0310 x219
http://www.inmedius.com

I am in search of the
simple elegant seductive
maybe even obvious IDEA.
With this in my pocket
I cannot fail.

- Tibor Kalman

Comments

19 Nov 2007 - 12:32pm
Anonymous

You will have a hard time getting me to give up books. There is a
good chance the batteries won't run out before I get to the end of a
chapter.

On Nov 19, 2007 11:26 AM, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
> Amazon has released the Kindle, their electronic book device. This is
> a very interesting product. My initial reactions:
>
> It's the right size/weight. I didn't like the industrial design of it
> at first (too antiseptic?), but it's growing on me. I can't imagine
> enjoying sitting down with it as much as I do a book made of paper,
> but then, once you get into the story, maybe the object you are
> holding doesn't matter so much.
>
> On the other hand, there are several things that really appeal to me,
> like the ability to search your content, the ability to annotate
> (without defacing the book), and bookmarking.
>
> They've done some really smart things, such as including the wireless
> service in the fee for the product, rather than requiring a separate,
> monthly fee or service contract. You can read the first chapter of any
> book for free before purchasing. It handles magazine and newspaper
> subscriptions. It also will display blog content, but is limited to
> some specific set of blogs, and this comes at an extra fee. They also
> charge a fee to put your own documents on the device (via email).
>
> As for the UI, call me spoiled, but their selection wheel with the
> separated selection indicator bar seems disconnected. Having had an
> iPhone for over a month now, I would want the ability to select things
> by tapping them on the screen. Even without a touchscreen, why can't
> the selection be shown within the content display, rather than in a
> separate display beside it.
>
> I like that they made the next/previous buttons available on both
> sides, but made the previous button significantly larger on the left,
> and the next button larger on the right. Still, I want to flip pages
> with a horizontal swipe of my finger.
>
> Using a grayscale display makes sense for reading books, but when it
> comes to magazines, blogs, and even newspapers, color would be
> desirable.
>
>
> What do you all think?
>
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Jack L. Moffett
> Interaction Designer
> inmedius
> 412.459.0310 x219
> http://www.inmedius.com
>
> I am in search of the
> simple elegant seductive
> maybe even obvious IDEA.
> With this in my pocket
> I cannot fail.
>
> - Tibor Kalman
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah*
> February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA
> Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

19 Nov 2007 - 12:47pm
Jeff Axup
2006

It is certainly a groundbreaking device, and it's great that Amazon has
finally paired a device with a store with lots of content. It's about time
we are getting a reasonable piece of hardware to view our
increasingly-electronic libraries with.

However, my biggest concern with the device is the apparent lack of open
standards for the format of the books. A great deal of my digital content is
in PDF format. They want me to upload each of those PDFs (possibly with
confidential info in it) to Amazon, to transfer to their own format, so they
can send it back over EVDO to me. That is ridiculous. Sony's e-book reader
supports standard PDF viewing. Kindle has an SD slot, so it seems a bit
short sighted to think they can keep all of the content on the device locked
into their own format (they do support Word and image formats without
reformatting).

Personally I'll be waiting to purchase until a third-party hack that will
either install a normal PDF viewer on the device appears, or a tool to
auto-convert PDFs to their format on my PC so I can read them on the device
without the upload.

Another concern is longevity of their book format. What if we don't have
devices that support this proprietary format in 10 years... are all of our
books going to become inaccessible?

-Jeff

On Nov 19, 2007 9:32 AM, Mike Scarpiello <mscarpiello at gmail.com> wrote:

> You will have a hard time getting me to give up books. There is a
> good chance the batteries won't run out before I get to the end of a
> chapter.
>
> On Nov 19, 2007 11:26 AM, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
> > Amazon has released the Kindle, their electronic book device. This is
> > a very interesting product. My initial reactions:
> >
> > It's the right size/weight. I didn't like the industrial design of it
> > at first (too antiseptic?), but it's growing on me. I can't imagine
> > enjoying sitting down with it as much as I do a book made of paper,
> > but then, once you get into the story, maybe the object you are
> > holding doesn't matter so much.
> >
> > On the other hand, there are several things that really appeal to me,
> > like the ability to search your content, the ability to annotate
> > (without defacing the book), and bookmarking.
> >
> > They've done some really smart things, such as including the wireless
> > service in the fee for the product, rather than requiring a separate,
> > monthly fee or service contract. You can read the first chapter of any
> > book for free before purchasing. It handles magazine and newspaper
> > subscriptions. It also will display blog content, but is limited to
> > some specific set of blogs, and this comes at an extra fee. They also
> > charge a fee to put your own documents on the device (via email).
> >
> > As for the UI, call me spoiled, but their selection wheel with the
> > separated selection indicator bar seems disconnected. Having had an
> > iPhone for over a month now, I would want the ability to select things
> > by tapping them on the screen. Even without a touchscreen, why can't
> > the selection be shown within the content display, rather than in a
> > separate display beside it.
> >
> > I like that they made the next/previous buttons available on both
> > sides, but made the previous button significantly larger on the left,
> > and the next button larger on the right. Still, I want to flip pages
> > with a horizontal swipe of my finger.
> >
> > Using a grayscale display makes sense for reading books, but when it
> > comes to magazines, blogs, and even newspapers, color would be
> > desirable.
> >
> >
> > What do you all think?
> >
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> > Jack L. Moffett
> > Interaction Designer
> > inmedius
> > 412.459.0310 x219
> > http://www.inmedius.com
> >
> > I am in search of the
> > simple elegant seductive
> > maybe even obvious IDEA.
> > With this in my pocket
> > I cannot fail.
> >
> > - Tibor Kalman
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah*
> > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA
> > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah*
> February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA
> Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
Thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
Jeff Axup, Ph.D.
Principal Consultant, Mobile Community Design Consulting, San Diego

Research: Mobile Group Research Methods, Social Networks, Group Usability
E-mail: axup <at> userdesign.com
Blog: http://mobilecommunitydesign.com
Moblog: http://memeaddict.blogspot.com

"Designers mine the raw bits of tomorrow. They shape them for the present
day." - Bruce Sterling
________________________________________________________________________________

19 Nov 2007 - 2:13pm
Kontra
2007

On 11/19/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:

> They've done some really smart things...

And a few that are not so smart. Newsweek says Amazon's looking at it
as "the iPod of reading." I explained why it won't be here:

"Why is the new Kindle eBook reader from Amazon and not Apple?"
http://counternotions.com/2007/11/19/kindle-vs-iphone/

--
Kontra
http://counternotions.com

19 Nov 2007 - 2:23pm
Mark Schraad
2006

$2 a month to read TechCrunch... really? Why would I pay this for a free blog that I can read on my pda or iphone?

On Monday, November 19, 2007, at 02:14PM, "Kontra" <counternotions at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 11/19/07, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
>
>> They've done some really smart things...
>
>And a few that are not so smart. Newsweek says Amazon's looking at it
>as "the iPod of reading." I explained why it won't be here:
>
>"Why is the new Kindle eBook reader from Amazon and not Apple?"
>http://counternotions.com/2007/11/19/kindle-vs-iphone/
>
>--
>Kontra
>http://counternotions.com

19 Nov 2007 - 2:49pm
.pauric
2006

Mark, point of fact; you spent 60 cents reading Techcrunch on your
iphone over the month (assuming 10 minutes a day, ~2K TCO iphone over
2 years).

While this device has a better story than previous e-readers it fails
in that its over priced even for early adopters.

Jeff Bezos struck me as a smart guy until I read this: "We forget
(that the printed book) is a 500-year-old technology, and we sort of
forget that it's even a technology," Bezos mused. "Gutenberg would
still recognize a modern-day book."

If it aint super broke, why charge $400 to fix it?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://gamma.ixda.org/discuss?post=22764

19 Nov 2007 - 2:53pm
Mark Schraad
2006

Well - actually I pay $20 a month to read as much of, what ever I want, each month. But point taken.

On Monday, November 19, 2007, at 02:50PM, "pauric" <radiorental at gmail.com> wrote:
>Mark, point of fact; you spent 60 cents reading Techcrunch on your
>iphone over the month (assuming 10 minutes a day, ~2K TCO iphone over
>2 years).

19 Nov 2007 - 2:57pm
Nasir Barday
2006

Pauric said:
>> If it aint super broke, why charge $400 to fix it?

Nice :-).

This is a great concept, but the locked-in pricing nature of the device is a
bit of a deal breaker. But we do have to consider that wireless access is
included (hence Pauric's fractional allocation of the $20 monthly data fee
to Tech Crunch). The industrial design is a bit off-- not sure if I'm a fan
of the lopsided, angular design-- evokes Japanese electronics design from
the 80s.

But this is my favorite part:
"*System requirements:* None, because it doesn't require a computer"

Interesting vision, and sounds a lot like the celestial jukebox for books. A
step in the right direction, but I agree with Pauric that even early
adopters will steer clear with such a high price.

- Nasir

19 Nov 2007 - 3:06pm
Robert Hoekman, Jr.
2005

>
> If it aint super broke, why charge $400 to fix it?
>

With regard to the environment, the printing process, ink, paper, bleaching
the paper, etc., is hugely wasteful. The production of a device is wasteful
as well, but in theory, you can reuse it for years without any new damage to
the environment. Of course, it has yet to be determined how much better it
is, what with people potentially dropping and replacing the devices often
enough that it ends up not being better at all.

I'm dedicating part of the proceeds of my next book to purchasing carbon
offsets for the production process and raw materials used. My book will be
green. Though, it will likely have a white cover. ;)

-r-

19 Nov 2007 - 3:24pm
jarango
2004

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:49:54, pauric <radiorental at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If it aint super broke, why charge $400 to fix it?

There are some situations in which books are super broken. Moving
information around in heavy blocks of mashed wood pulp is ineffective.
With the rising social, economic, and environmental costs of fossil
fuels, it is also morally dubious.

An example: in the developing world, access to quality libraries is
rare -- the availability of books is limited by their impractical
physical form. Like cellphones, which have improved people's lives in
the developing world by bringing telecoms where copper wouldn't reach,
ebooks have the potential of helping folks in less developed parts of
the world get access to resources we take for granted.

Cheers,

-- Jorge

19 Nov 2007 - 3:35pm
jarango
2004

On Nov 19, 2007 12:26 PM, Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com> wrote:
>
> I can't imagine
> enjoying sitting down with it as much as I do a book made of paper,
> but then, once you get into the story, maybe the object you are
> holding doesn't matter so much.

These first (eh, second) generation devices are something of a
"horseless carriage" -- the form factor is determined less by the
purpose of the device (getting knowledge from one brain to another)
than by the fact that people have been comfortable with books for
hundreds of years.

We'll eventually move from the book form factor onto something that
leverages the technology more effectively. (I'm sure the first bound
books must have felt weird to people used to reading off scrolls.)

Cheers,

-- Jorge

19 Nov 2007 - 3:55pm
Jeff Axup
2006

All technologies follow a path into obsolescence. The question is not *if*,
but *when* the paper book will reach this point. Books do still have some
advantages, but those are likely to be short lived.

Major issues with paper books:

- weight. when I move, half the weight of my possessions is books. it
also keeps me from travelling with information I need.
- static. I can't search paper books. it is often very frustrating to
not be able to find information. I can't search a library card catalog and
be certain a book has what I want in it.
- inefficient libraries. libraries have to deal with space for large
numbers of books, and having to physically go pick a book up (and find it)
and track it's loaning out, etc.
- durability. I went to see the dead sea scrolls recently. much of
their content has been forever lost due to them falling apart. digital
formats at least have the potential of being upgraded/converted.
- backups. when I lose a book it's gone.
- updates/errata. impossible to rapidly update a paper book.
- distribution speed. if blogs had to wait a day to be delivered they
wouldn't be all that useful. the inefficiency of book rental/purchase/print
isn't going to work in a society that is speeding up.

-Jeff

On Nov 19, 2007 12:24 PM, Jorge Arango <jarango at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:49:54, pauric <radiorental at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > If it aint super broke, why charge $400 to fix it?
>
> There are some situations in which books are super broken. Moving
> information around in heavy blocks of mashed wood pulp is ineffective.
> With the rising social, economic, and environmental costs of fossil
> fuels, it is also morally dubious.
>
> An example: in the developing world, access to quality libraries is
> rare -- the availability of books is limited by their impractical
> physical form. Like cellphones, which have improved people's lives in
> the developing world by bringing telecoms where copper wouldn't reach,
> ebooks have the potential of helping folks in less developed parts of
> the world get access to resources we take for granted.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Jorge
> ________________________________________________________________
> *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah*
> February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA
> Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
Thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
Jeff Axup, Ph.D.
Principal Consultant, Mobile Community Design Consulting, San Diego

Research: Mobile Group Research Methods, Social Networks, Group Usability
E-mail: axup <at> userdesign.com
Blog: http://mobilecommunitydesign.com
Moblog: http://memeaddict.blogspot.com

"Designers mine the raw bits of tomorrow. They shape them for the present
day." - Bruce Sterling
________________________________________________________________________________

19 Nov 2007 - 4:02pm
.pauric
2006

Robert :"With regard to the environment, the printing process, ink,
paper, bleaching the paper, etc., is hugely wasteful. "

Probably not the forum for this but paper is both recyclable &
renewable. Plastic (oil), copper, NiCad and all the other
ingredients in a modern device produced here:
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/gallery/2007/jul/18/china.pollution?picture=330216030>
are marginally renewable and hugely wasteful in the sense that we dont
know where to put this crap once its obsolete... paper.. I cant take
it to the outhouse (o; Carbon offsetting your next book is a nice
touch.

Jorge, completely agree with sentiment on enabling the developing
world. The OLPC project goes a some way to addressing those issues.
Until Amazon offer a device to the developing world (and make it
802.11 not evdo) for everyone sold here, as the OLPC project has done,
then I dont buy the your argument. Also, I dont see how an e-reader
helps someone who cant read or write... laptops & teachers address
that problem.

This is a $400 closed device that will get cut by about $100 in the
new year. Go to version 2 in colour sometime in the middle of next
year and then slowly fade in to the annals of niche devices that had a
beloved following but which never really caught on. This thing has
Newton written all over it.

Spend that $400 on a good bike and you'll do the world of good for
mind, body & environment (or $250 on a crappy bike and buy some kid a
laptop). Apologies for the off-topic rant.

Kind regards - pauric

19 Nov 2007 - 4:13pm
.pauric
2006

Jorge:"I'm sure the first bound books must have felt weird to people
used to reading off scrolls."

You should watch this (o;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFAWR6hzZek

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://gamma.ixda.org/discuss?post=22764

19 Nov 2007 - 4:15pm
jarango
2004

On Nov 19, 2007 4:02 PM, pauric <radiorental at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Until Amazon offer a device to the developing world (and make it
> 802.11 not evdo) for everyone sold here, as the OLPC project has done,
> then I dont buy the your argument.

Yeah, but we gotta start *somewhere*. The OLPC is at the tail end of a
development process that has been going on for at least two decades,
if not longer. The Kindle and other currently available ereaders are
to this technology what the Osborne I is to the OLPC.

IMO the biggest payoff will come not from the devices themselves, but
from the digitization of books. We need devices like the Kindle in
order to kickstart this process into high gear.

> Also, I dont see how an e-reader
> helps someone who cant read or write... laptops & teachers address
> that problem.

I agree with you (though I don't know about the value of about laptops
in this scenario) ... still, I think the ereaders have a huge role to
play once literacy is a part of the equation.

Cheers,

-- Jorge

19 Nov 2007 - 1:32pm
Onur Orhon
2007

I think Amazon is definitely on the right track with the Kindle in
terms for creating an online experience, instead of just a device
that can display text and images. We've all seen it; iPod clearly
proved that with enough creative thinking behind the scenes, a
company can create a complete interactive experience (device, iTunes,
iTunes store, 3rd party support etc.). So I think by following that
model, Amazon is already ahead of the game compared to say Sony, or
others. And they are most likely to succeed, with more than a decade
of online media experience and robust infrastructure.

Here is my initial impression:
On the positive side:
- Great move with whispernet. Especially that you don't have to
subscribe to a monthly service.
- Integrated keyboard
- Lightweight
- Unique design that is not reminiscent of the iPod
- Long battery life
- Newspaper mode
- Connects to wikipedia and has a built-in dictionary

And not so positive:
- Small screen size compared to the actual footprint
- Low resolution
- No color
- No pdf support
- Cannot connect to just any blog, only the ones available in the
store. So forget about posting to your own blog, or responding to
comments (I hope I'm wrong about this one)
- No touch screen (I'm guessing it's a limitation of e-ink
technology)
- Dated look. I think they were shooting for a design that didn't
look like an electronic device (like the Sony reader) but
unfortunately it's a failure. The Kindle still looks like an
electronic device to me. One from the 80's. It also reminds me of a
cheap toy, almost like a streamlined etch-a-sketch.

Cheers,
-onur

www.tuningslide.com

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
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20 Nov 2007 - 12:20am
cfmdesigns
2004

I would love to see a full-on comparison between this and the Sony device, in comparison to the Gemster eBook/SoftBook Reader and the NuvoMedia RocketBook.

(I'm biased, having worked at SoftBook/Gemstar for a couple years. The market wasn't quite there yet -- and the bubble would have collapsed it anyway, even if Gemstar hadn't wrecked the momentum -- but it remains to me a superior device and I wish it had lived to be in its 3rd or 4th generation hardware today.)

-- Jim

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Moffett <jmoffett at inmedius.com>
>
>Amazon has released the Kindle, their electronic book device. This is
>a very interesting product. My initial reactions:

20 Nov 2007 - 12:51am
cfmdesigns
2004

>From: Onur Orhon <onurorhon at gmail.com>
>
>And not so positive:
>- Low resolution
>- No color
>- No touch screen (I'm guessing it's a limitation of e-ink
>technology)

I think these are all limitations of the current level for the tech.

>- Cannot connect to just any blog, only the ones available in the
>store. So forget about posting to your own blog, or responding to
>comments (I hope I'm wrong about this one)

Is there a lot of utility in the hardware keyboard without this? (Oh, and is the blog access interactive -- can you leave comments -- or is it just a limited web clipping service?) Of course, the eInk technology may preclude a software keyboard at this point.

One of the big requests that they are going to be pushed for is PIM abilities. And even though I "got it" when working at SoftBook that it's "just" a book, that it need to be a really good book and not a mediocre everything else, the utility of even just some simple PIM facilities is massive. Notes, calendar, contacts -- an eDayRunner, if you will.

I don't buy the argument that the initial price point is too high, even for early adopters. The SoftBook Reader was $700, or $300 plus $20 a month for 2 years. The iPhone was $500 plus service. The iPod was $300 or so. $400 is completely in line with every other device in its initial entry.

-- Jim

21 Nov 2007 - 1:38pm
Anonymous

Maybe they only had 10 of them?

http://tinyurl.com/ypb8ea

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
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21 Nov 2007 - 5:48pm
Onur Orhon
2007

Jim, I don't think the resolution is a limitation for the e-ink
technology. At least it wasn't for this 1200x1600 device:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/e_ink/seiko-high res-super
thin-ebook-reader-323502.php

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=22764

21 Nov 2007 - 5:53pm
Anonymous

It’s going to be famous like the iPOD.

For music it’s iPOD, for books it’s (going to be) Kindle.

> To: discuss at ixda.org> From: mscarpiello at gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:38:36 +0000> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Kindle> > Maybe they only had 10 of them?> > http://tinyurl.com/ypb8ea
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22 Nov 2007 - 8:51am
Matt Nish-Lapidus
2007

On what grounds? As has been mentioned a couple times (), the success
of the iPod hinged on the fact that people already had huge digital
music collections and no convenient way to play them... the Kindle is
trying to start a market that doesn't really exist yet... and if you
already have a collection of digital books they probably aren't
supported by Kindle anyway due to it's DRM scheme and proprietary file
format.

The other issue is that a book purchased in Kindle format can't be
used anywhere else... if you're Kindle dies or Amazon stops supporting
it you're out of luck. That library is useless. At least with the
iPod I can use plain MP3s or buy AACs and burn them to a non-DRM CD
for later use.

To me that's the biggest difference between the iPod and Kindle.. and
the reason why the Kindle is not going to take off like the iPod did.

On Nov 21, 2007 5:53 PM, Prasad Perera <prasad2web at hotmail.com> wrote:
> It's going to be famous like the iPOD.
>
> For music it's iPOD, for books it's (going to be) Kindle.
>
> > To: discuss at ixda.org> From: mscarpiello at gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:38:36 +0000> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Kindle> > Maybe they only had 10 of them?> > http://tinyurl.com/ypb8ea

--
Matt Nish-Lapidus
email/gtalk: mattnl at gmail.com
++
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattnl
Home: http://www.nishlapidus.com

22 Nov 2007 - 2:37am
Murli Nagasundaram
2007

Well, Amazon seems to be trying to emulate the iPod''s user experience
model, viz.: the device, the software (iTunes), and the iTunes Store
triptych. Except: they eliminated the software by doing away with the need
for an intermediate device (i.e., the PC/laptop) and enabled a direct link
between the device and the online store.

Will this be sufficient? The history of tablet/book type devices has not
been a happy one; perhaps, in retrospect, their downfall was their vendors
didn't sell a whole experience, only a device. Apple (and let's admit it,
Steve Jobs) was the first to figure out that people sought experiences, not
cold, hard equipment - at least in the consumer space. The iPod's got
something (carefully constructed, of course) that, so far at least, Kindle
(and Amazon) doesn't: romance, sex appeal, etc. The market segment that the
iPod targeted, at least initially, fell madly in love with the iPod. No
doubt the interaction/interface design was the most important factor. This
alone would have probably gotten the innovators and early adopters in the
market; but romance and sex appeal by themselves cannot carry a product to
massively dominant market position. This is where the Total User Experience
(new TLA alert: TUE) really made a difference.

I really like Amazon, but I look upon it as a utilitarian source of books
and other stuff, the way I look upon my beat up old car. Not something I am
dearly in love with, but something which works great and saves me a lot of
money.

Kindle is a nice device, but: Kindle, doesn't.

I may be forced to eat my words just like the many naysayers of the iPod
when it was introduced.

Cheers,

- murli n. | www.murli.com

On 11/22/07, Prasad Perera <prasad2web at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's going to be famous like the iPOD.
>
> For music it's iPOD, for books it's (going to be) Kindle.
>
>

22 Nov 2007 - 9:40am
.pauric
2006

Matthew:"(drm versus open library) To me that's the biggest
difference between the iPod and Kindle and the reason why the Kindle
is not going to take off like the iPod did."

The iPod isnt as 'open' as you might think. You cant really take
your iTunes library and plonk it on another player, you can only burn
a track/album to cd 5 times. Its not terrible but its certainly DRM.

However, I think there's a strong argument to say that isnt the
reason the iPod took off. Ease of use, and for me.. the 'story'.
Non technical users pitched a scenario that they could buy in to, and
a solution that actually worked.

The question hanging over the Kindle's head is will people buy the
story? Can they visualise their life being better through carrying
digitised reading collection around?

There's no question in my mind that the ebook reader concept will
have a significant market share in the future. But I see a more
gradual shift from book to connected-linked-searchable-always on
which younger and future generations will be more comfortable with.

But a ~5 year mass switch from book to ebook, similar to CD-iPod...
very hard to see that happening with something that wouldnt look out
of place on the set of Space 1999
http://www.treksf.com/podcast/space1999cast.jpg

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://gamma.ixda.org/discuss?post=22764

22 Nov 2007 - 10:57am
Mark Schraad
2006

The real deciding factor may be that listening to music is, and
always has been much cooler than reading books. That is not likely to
change.

The promise in the Kindle (or any similar portable display) is
finding some method of delivering books without the delay of the
publishing and print process. That is takes months to get a book
printed and distributed renders it much less instant and as a result
less relevant for all but the most in-depth studies and stories. Even
magazines pale in timeliness to online sources such as blogs and even
forums. I am not sure that knowledge and science are progressing at a
faster rate than ten years prior, but information dissemination
surely has. Last spring's MBA class on internet marketing is now sooo
out of date.

Mark

On Nov 22, 2007, at 1:40 AM, pauric wrote:

> Matthew:"(drm versus open library) To me that's the biggest
> difference between the iPod and Kindle and the reason why the Kindle
> is not going to take off like the iPod did."
>
> The iPod isnt as 'open' as you might think. You cant really take
> your iTunes library and plonk it on another player, you can only burn
> a track/album to cd 5 times. Its not terrible but its certainly DRM.

22 Nov 2007 - 2:25pm
cfmdesigns
2004

On Nov 22, 2007, at 5:51 AM, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote:

> The other issue is that a book purchased in Kindle format can't be
> used anywhere else... if you're Kindle dies or Amazon stops supporting
> it you're out of luck. That library is useless. At least with the
> iPod I can use plain MP3s or buy AACs and burn them to a non-DRM CD
> for later use.

I concur with this, and it's also the primary argument against the
iPod Monopoly claim: the device is not locked against other formats,
so if the iTunes Store went away, non-DRM music from other sources
could still be transferred to and played from an iPod, just like from
any other music player. (There are also enough of the things out
there that an after-market can exists in the repair business, keeping
iPods "alive" if Apple stopped making them.)

If the Kindle store and Kindle transfer service goes away, these
devices are bricks, with no mechanism to use them for anything but the
content currently on them. That was exactly the risk with the Gemstar
eBooks 6 years ago, since Gemstar shut off the personal content upload
channel when it bought SoftBook and NuvoMedia, although I believe that
they turned it back on before shutting things down (and there were
still backdoor ways into the RocketBooks), preventing them from being
complete bricks.

What depresses me most with the Kindle is that it's like the eBook
industry shut itself off 6 years ago and rebooted today. Other than
the eInk display, there isn't a single new idea or innovation apparent
in the Kindle descriptions that wasn't in place at the turn of the
millennium. It's like no time has passed, nothing has moved forward.

-- Jim Drew
cfmdesigns at earthlink.net
http://www.soundskinky.com/blog/

22 Nov 2007 - 4:14pm
.pauric
2006

Mark: "The real deciding factor may be that listening to music is, and
always has been much cooler than reading books."

Interesting, so you dont see a marketing campaign consisting of
silhouettes reading Kindles? It might work, no? (o;

"That is takes months to get a book printed and distributed renders
> it much less instant and as a result less relevant for all but the most
> in-depth studies and stories."

'll point to the more recent Michael Wesch video:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGCJ46vyR9o> As an example of why the
Kindle will fail at being a well rounded learning solution when
compared to the laptop. Getting the latest MBA course material is
one thing, having it on the same device along with the 'cloud' is
missing here. Or have I misunderstood your point?

thanks -pauric

22 Nov 2007 - 9:57pm
Kontra
2007

Matt Nish-Lapidus: "To me that's the biggest difference between the
iPod and Kindle and the reason why the Kindle is not going to take
off like the iPod did."

Exactly right.

There are several likely scenarios this fundamental barrier could
have been alleviated by Amazon, but they chose not to deal with it at
all.

I blogged about this on the eve of Kindle's introduction:

Why is the new Kindle eBook reader from Amazon and not Apple?

http://counternotions.com/2007/11/19/kindle-vs-iphone/

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=22764

26 Nov 2007 - 1:38pm
Murli Nagasundaram
2007

Another take on Kindle. This reviewer likes it, and discusses why.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9048498&pageNumber=1

Opinion: Why Amazon's Kindle is revolutionary Surprising facts about
Amazon's new Kindle e-book reader
Mike Elgan

mn

26 Nov 2007 - 2:53pm
Fred Beecher
2006

On 11/26/07, Murli Nagasundaram <murliman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Another take on Kindle. This reviewer likes it, and discusses why.

It's refreshing to read this article. I have to admit, I was *very*
surprised to see such negative reactions on this list. No, it definitely
*isn't* perfect, but it represents so many user-centric design innovations
that it's hard not to love.
In the context of some recent discussions about the life cycle of technology
(basic functionality > features > experience), the Kindle seems to represent
a jump straight from functionality to experience. Everything about this
device (okay, except for the retro design and DRM) is focused on the
*experience* of reading. I don't have time to go through each feature and
point that out, but the article Murli posted certainly does a great job of
that.

But I think in many ways Kindle goes one better than just replicating or
taking into account the experience of reading. It actually *extends* the
experience, in that it makes things that readers may like to do *easier than
they are now.* The example that sticks out most in my mind is the hookup to
Wikipedia. I read a lot of history and historical fiction, and these genres
rely heavily on context. So, for example, if I'm reading something in a
regular book that takes place during the 1918 influenza epidemic, I might
just acknowledge that fact and move on rather than going through the effort
of opening my computer or pulling out an encyclopedia to get more
information about it. That's a serious interruption in flow. But if an
encyclopedia is *right there* (meaning not in the computer or taking up a
whole bookshelf), it doesn't significantly interrupt my flow to go read
about that event in depth. Smarmy comments about Wikipedia and accuracy
aside, in that situation I just experienced a much richer version of
"reading" than had I done so using a regular book.

So is there a *fourth* stage in the lifecycle of technology, where the
experience is not only accounted for but actually extended? To me, Kindle
makes it seem that there might be...

Alright... gotta get back to billing!

- Fred

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