slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?

20 Jun 2008 - 7:20pm
5 years ago
14 replies
926 reads
mat_kinotek
2008

sorry guys.. from the interesting discussion regarding an master
degree.. I was wandering ..
in your opinion and experiences, which are good master programs out
there ?
I dont want to look for the perfection, which is impossible in the
case, and dont want to open a pandora's box ..
i was just wondering which are your impressions from the field ..

m

Il giorno 21/giu/08, alle ore 02:11, j. eric townsend ha scritto:

> Uday Gajendar wrote:
>> Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the
>> advantages are primarily:
>
> That pretty much lines up with my desire to go back to grad school,
> especially #3. I've got a ton of industry experience in related
> disciplines, but taking a year or two off of everything to focus on
> design thinking 24/7 at a name school would make a huge difference
> in my way of thinking and my way of working.
>
> It's one thing to read _Designing Interactions_ or _Design for the
> Real World_ over the course of a few evenings at home after work;
> another entirely to read those as part of a structured learning
> event and then debate/discuss it with my peers over the course of a
> week (or four).
>
>
> --
> jet / KG6ZVQ
> http://www.flatline.net
> pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\_______

kinotek live media & vjing

http://kinotek.org - mat at kinotek.org
cell. 00393332152448 skype. mat_kinotek

___________________/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Comments

22 Jun 2008 - 4:02pm
Jeff Howard
2004

Hi Mat,

The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of
Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but
it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des.

// jeff

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524

22 Jun 2008 - 5:50pm
Chauncey Wilson
2007

What are the criteria that would be a program "good" -- famous
designers on faculty, ratings of the curriculum, the salaries of
graduates, the number of articles generated by graduates, the success
of students from one school versus the sucess of those from other
schools....? I can envision goodness being related to the capability
of the faculty and the breadth of courses and actual design
experience.

Chauncey

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:20 PM, mat_kinotek <mat at kinotek.org> wrote:
>
>
> sorry guys.. from the interesting discussion regarding an master degree.. I
> was wandering ..
> in your opinion and experiences, which are good master programs out there ?
> I dont want to look for the perfection, which is impossible in the case, and
> dont want to open a pandora's box ..
> i was just wondering which are your impressions from the field ..
>
> m
>
>
>
> Il giorno 21/giu/08, alle ore 02:11, j. eric townsend ha scritto:
>
>> Uday Gajendar wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the
>>> advantages are primarily:
>>
>> That pretty much lines up with my desire to go back to grad school,
>> especially #3. I've got a ton of industry experience in related
>> disciplines, but taking a year or two off of everything to focus on design
>> thinking 24/7 at a name school would make a huge difference in my way of
>> thinking and my way of working.
>>
>> It's one thing to read _Designing Interactions_ or _Design for the Real
>> World_ over the course of a few evenings at home after work; another
>> entirely to read those as part of a structured learning event and then
>> debate/discuss it with my peers over the course of a week (or four).
>>
>>
>> --
>> jet / KG6ZVQ
>> http://www.flatline.net
>> pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>>
>
>
>
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\_______
>
> kinotek live media & vjing
>
> http://kinotek.org - mat at kinotek.org
> cell. 00393332152448 skype. mat_kinotek
>
> ___________________/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

22 Jun 2008 - 6:03pm
Dan Saffer
2003

On Jun 22, 2008, at 3:50 PM, Chauncey Wilson wrote:

> What are the criteria that would be a program "good" --

I don't think this would be a hard list to put together. Off the top
of my head:

Quality of Faculty
Quality, Breadth, and Depth of Curriculum
Strength of Alumni Network
Reputation in Professional Community
Facilities

Dan

22 Jun 2008 - 6:51pm
Dave Malouf
2005

Jeff, UW has an MFA in IxD? Really?
It's never crossed my path. Only the MLIS/MIS stuff have previously
but only for IA types. Interesting.
-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524

22 Jun 2008 - 7:06pm
Mark Schraad
2006

The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a
terminal degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get
in design. Yes, I know there are few PhD's, but they are far from the
norm at this point in time. The upshot here is that you can, if on
faculty, be considered for a full professorship and tenure, if that
is an option that speaks to you.

I seriously considered that route, but I kind of knew that two
masters in three years was my limit... and wanted to get back to full
time work (thought I loved the learning and open ended nature of
academia).

Mark

On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jeff Howard wrote:

> Hi Mat,
>
> The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of
> Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but
> it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des.
>
> // jeff
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

22 Jun 2008 - 7:23pm
Christine Boese
2006

Generally, while MFAs can be considered for full professorship and tenure,
it is not commonly awarded without a clear national reputation on par with
public gallery exhibitions, BIG awards or grants (think MacArthur genius
fellows), or, in the case of writing MFAs and others related to that, one or
more well-received books.

It's a tough case to make in most departments. The professionally-focused
journalism and radio-TV programs have an agreement with most university
administrators to give tenure to people with just master's degrees, but
generally, that is for people who have been quite high up at well-respected
places (editor level, like at Wall St Journal, or major metro dailies one
step under that).

On the other hand, there is a list of journalism programs who had that kind
of agreement with the university administration, only to have that pulled
out from under them a few years later with a president/chancellor change, as
some new ambitious administrator comes in and demands that all departments
start counting PhDs and nothing but. I know lots of people who have been
blindsided by this happening.

Chris

On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:06 PM, mark schraad <mschraad at gmail.com> wrote:

> The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a terminal
> degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get in design. Yes, I
> know there are few PhD's, but they are far from the norm at this point in
> time. The upshot here is that you can, if on faculty, be considered for a
> full professorship and tenure, if that is an option that speaks to you.
>
> I seriously considered that route, but I kind of knew that two masters in
> three years was my limit... and wanted to get back to full time work
> (thought I loved the learning and open ended nature of academia).
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jeff Howard wrote:
>
> Hi Mat,
>>
>> The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of
>> Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but
>> it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des.
>>
>> // jeff
>>
>>
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>> Posted from the new ixda.org
>> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

22 Jun 2008 - 7:28pm
Mark Schraad
2006

Great clarification Chris. I guess the larger point was that without
an MFA... an MA doesn't put you in that position. And the trend
towards the PhD is growing. Most people I know have gone the route of
design history or design education.

Mark

On Jun 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Christine Boese wrote:

> Generally, while MFAs can be considered for full professorship and
> tenure, it is not commonly awarded without a clear national
> reputation on par with public gallery exhibitions, BIG awards or
> grants (think MacArthur genius fellows), or, in the case of writing
> MFAs and others related to that, one or more well-received books.
>
> It's a tough case to make in most departments. The professionally-
> focused journalism and radio-TV programs have an agreement with
> most university administrators to give tenure to people with just
> master's degrees, but generally, that is for people who have been
> quite high up at well-respected places (editor level, like at Wall
> St Journal, or major metro dailies one step under that).
>
> On the other hand, there is a list of journalism programs who had
> that kind of agreement with the university administration, only to
> have that pulled out from under them a few years later with a
> president/chancellor change, as some new ambitious administrator
> comes in and demands that all departments start counting PhDs and
> nothing but. I know lots of people who have been blindsided by this
> happening.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:06 PM, mark schraad <mschraad at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a
> terminal degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get
> in design. Yes, I know there are few PhD's, but they are far from
> the norm at this point in time. The upshot here is that you can, if
> on faculty, be considered for a full professorship and tenure, if
> that is an option that speaks to you.
>
> I seriously considered that route, but I kind of knew that two
> masters in three years was my limit... and wanted to get back to
> full time work (thought I loved the learning and open ended nature
> of academia).
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jeff Howard wrote:
>
> Hi Mat,
>
> The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of
> Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but
> it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des.
>
> // jeff
>
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

22 Jun 2008 - 7:44pm
Dan Saffer
2003

On Jun 22, 2008, at 5:06 PM, mark schraad wrote:

> The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a
> terminal degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get
> in design. Yes, I know there are few PhD's, but they are far from
> the norm at this point in time. The upshot here is that you can, if
> on faculty, be considered for a full professorship and tenure, if
> that is an option that speaks to you.

The Master of Design (M.Des.) degree that is given out by both CMU
and ID are also considered terminal degrees. Just FYI.

Dan

22 Jun 2008 - 8:21pm
Jeff Howard
2004

Dave wrote:
> Jeff, UW has an MFA in IxD? Really?

I haven't really looked into the program, but I used to work with
someone who is finishing his MFA in Interaction Design there.

http://depts.washington.edu/designuw/IxD_mfa_curriculum.htm

"The Division of Design offers graduate programs in Visual
Communication Design and Industrial Design. Both MFA tracks can
entail a concentration in Interaction Design, where classes and
individual studies of interaction design problems complement graduate
core seminars and studios."

// jeff

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524

22 Jun 2008 - 8:43pm
Dave Malouf
2005

Thanx for the extra info. It looks like it is an ID (or Visual Design
Masters) with a concentration in IxD, but not an IxD program per se
like CMU or KU. (might speak to my other point about design degrees
may need to be about "the thing").
-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524

22 Jun 2008 - 8:50pm
Christine Boese
2006

One reason the trend toward PhD is growing has more to do with the level of
preparation and lack of maturity students have across the board, coming in
from high school at the undergrad level. This only applies in the US, as
European and other international education standards are higher.

I don't mean to make anyone defensive, as it isn't personal, but anybody who
has taught college for 15+ years will tell you the same thing. It is due to
an overall decline in literacy levels, an inability to really READ and
comprehend, and think critically. So many undergrads are coming to college
these days with a sense of entitlement, like they're going to get the grades
for showing up and filling the chair. Grade inflation is WAY up, and most of
y'all have probably encountered these issues with the level of
responsibility you can give summer interns. It takes 'em a couple of years
to buckle in, learn to work, and focus, and that's time most degree programs
need, just to get students up to the level they have to be at to enter the
work force, entry level.

Companies are even beefing up their in-house training programs specifically
to address this weakness in entry level skill sets. Means more work for us,
tho, cuz they need training software interaction design.

I personally chalk it up to the dominant socialization of high school
cultures, although short attention span media and multi-tasking attitudes
don't help students master difficult material and skills very well in
undergraduate majors either. I actually think it is equal parts a deficit in
literacy and maturity. So many kids (I of course am exempting hard working
adult learners, who often suffer in classes with these folks, and frequently
lose their cool if they have to be in collaborative project groups with
them, when they can't count on group members to complete even the most
ridiculously easy tasks) come to college as precious darlings of
over-protective helicopter parents, who swoop in to protest every grade
given below a B. That's why grade inflation is up so badly, btw. Untenured
faculty just can't fight that kind of pressure. Adminstrators call students
"customers," and the helicopter parents take that literally, demand whatever
they want, and get it.

So that brings us down to the masters degree becoming the equivalent of what
the undergrad degree used to be. However, many schools are having trouble
with admissions standards in their masters programs as well (perhaps less so
now, with a recession), and sometimes they lower their standards dangerously
too, just to keep their numbers up I've seen some weak grad classes at times
as well.

Across the board, tho, I usually felt sorriest for the returning adult
students who needed the credential, which is held up so high over their
heads, because they chose to have kids, or go straight to work, or are
changing careers, or it is costing them a promotion, or ding-a-ling college
grads keep getting hired above them at their current jobs (and they have to
train them--this has happened to my brother so many times it isn't funny).
It's so tough to stomach, to finally jump in and taken on that degree
barrier head on, and get in your classes, and have to sit there with
18-year-olds who think they are still in high school.

The worst thing is watching the faces of the adult learners, when they
expect to be challenged by the material in the course, as it dawns on them
how bone-headedly easy instructors have to make everything, have to spell
out every instruction, because if they didn't, the 18-year-olds would just
be lost and floundering, and then the helicopter parents would come swooping
in. I've been in that position before, and after class, apologized to the
adult students, for seemingly insulting their intelligence. It was
embarrassing for all of us.

Chris

On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:28 PM, mark schraad <mschraad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Great clarification Chris. I guess the larger point was that without an
> MFA... an MA doesn't put you in that position. And the trend towards the PhD
> is growing. Most people I know have gone the route of design history or
> design education.
> Mark
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Christine Boese wrote:
>
> Generally, while MFAs can be considered for full professorship and tenure,
> it is not commonly awarded without a clear national reputation on par with
> public gallery exhibitions, BIG awards or grants (think MacArthur genius
> fellows), or, in the case of writing MFAs and others related to that, one or
> more well-received books.
>
> It's a tough case to make in most departments. The professionally-focused
> journalism and radio-TV programs have an agreement with most university
> administrators to give tenure to people with just master's degrees, but
> generally, that is for people who have been quite high up at well-respected
> places (editor level, like at Wall St Journal, or major metro dailies one
> step under that).
>
> On the other hand, there is a list of journalism programs who had that kind
> of agreement with the university administration, only to have that pulled
> out from under them a few years later with a president/chancellor change, as
> some new ambitious administrator comes in and demands that all departments
> start counting PhDs and nothing but. I know lots of people who have been
> blindsided by this happening.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:06 PM, mark schraad <mschraad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a terminal
>> degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get in design. Yes, I
>> know there are few PhD's, but they are far from the norm at this point in
>> time. The upshot here is that you can, if on faculty, be considered for a
>> full professorship and tenure, if that is an option that speaks to you.
>>
>> I seriously considered that route, but I kind of knew that two masters in
>> three years was my limit... and wanted to get back to full time work
>> (thought I loved the learning and open ended nature of academia).
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jeff Howard wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mat,
>>>
>>> The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of
>>> Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but
>>> it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des.
>>>
>>> // jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>> Posted from the new ixda.org
>>> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________________________
>>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>>> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>>> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
>>> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>>
>
>
>

22 Jun 2008 - 9:25pm
Aaron Druck
2008

doesnt Parsons have a MFA program?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524

23 Jun 2008 - 9:41am
Dave Malouf
2005

I think you are referring to their Design & Technology course. I
don't know if it is an MFA or a M. Des. but it is masters level. I
know they teach IxD courses as part of the program, but I'm not sure
I would call it an Interaction Design program. But I've been told by
others that it is.

-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524

22 Jun 2008 - 6:37pm
Kontra
2007

> What are the criteria that would be a program "good"

#1: Will it get me my first job?
#2: Will it get me a higher paying job?
#3: Will it get me a more satisfying job?

--
Kontra
http://counternotions.com

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