Pandora to possibly shut down?

18 Aug 2008 - 4:40pm
5 years ago
9 replies
634 reads
Andrei Herasimchuk
2004

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503367.html

Discuss.

--
Andrei Herasimchuk

Principal, Involution Studios
innovating the digital world

e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
c. +1 408 306 6422

Comments

18 Aug 2008 - 5:06pm
Jared M. Spool
2003

On Aug 18, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk wrote:

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503367.html
>
> Discuss.

What aspect would you like to discuss?

I think that it sucks, because I enjoy Pandora and Last.fm (which I
assume will fall prey to the same rules), but it's within
SoundExchange's rights to control the license fees and, for some
reason, they think this is best for their constituents.

Frankly, we've been through this before and SoundExchange is like the
dutch boy trying to stick his finger in the dyke. Eventually, a new
model will spring forth (probably one where individual artists
circumvent the labels and their control structure) and the music will
find its way to the consumer.

After all, with the exception of the small number of bands that make
money through their album sales, bands do better at using music to
promote live gigs.

That's my take,

Jared

Jared M. Spool
User Interface Engineering
510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845
e: jspool at uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561
http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks

18 Aug 2008 - 7:31pm
Jarod Tang
2007

Another example of well designed objects be killed by rights. As the
founder said, the business model is broken by the rights/changes
promotion.
As compareable iTurns (on business model side). since so many people
love pandora, it MAYBE have some way out instead of saying "we are
done". But where is it from bussines model design perspective?

Cheers,
-- Jarod

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 5:40 AM, Andrei Herasimchuk
<aherasimchuk at involutionstudios.com> wrote:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503367.html
>
> Discuss.
>
> --
> Andrei Herasimchuk
>
> Principal, Involution Studios
> innovating the digital world
>
> e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
> c. +1 408 306 6422
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
Designing for better life style.

http://jarodtang.spaces.live.com/
http://jarodtang.blogspot.com

18 Aug 2008 - 9:35pm
Anonymous

Anyone hiring?
;-)

Thanks,
Brett
w (773) 525-7595
m (415) 902-4128

On Aug 18, 2008, at 4:40 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk wrote:

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503367.html
>
> Discuss.
>
> --
> Andrei Herasimchuk
>
> Principal, Involution Studios
> innovating the digital world
>
> e. andrei at involutionstudios.com
> c. +1 408 306 6422
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

20 Aug 2008 - 11:29am
Shaun Bergmann
2007

I started using "MusicMatch" 3 or 4 years ago and absolutely loved
it. The "artist match" functionality introduced me to many new
artists that I otherwise wouldn't have been aware of, and those
artists can directly thank my daily usage of MusicMatch for all of
the CD's and concert tickets I've actually payed for since then.

Well, MusicMatch in Canada came to a close sometime around 18 months
ago, and was apparently bought out or replaced by Yahoo Music Canada.
I payed for an account with Yahoo to continue using it.
It was mostly the same engine, although I found the "Artist Match
Radio" to not be quite as powerful.

This morning, I launched the desktop app and was presented with the
following:

"Important Notice: Yahoo! Music Unlimited Service Termination
This is a notice to inform you that Yahoo! Music Unlimited and Yahoo!
Music Unlimited To Go will no longer be available in Canada as of
September 30, 2008.

What does this mean for annual subscribers?
Annual subscribers with anniversary dates after May 1 will not be
renewed for service. Any annual subscribers that have a term that
extends beyond October 1 will receive a pro-rata refund on their
credit card. All users make should verify their billing information
is current in their Yahoo! Wallet

What does this mean for monthly subscribers?
Monthly subscribers will continue to be renewed through August 30,
with their service stopping on their anniversary date through
September 30.

If you have purchased tracks from the Yahoo! Music Unlimited store,
we recommend that you back them up to an audio CD before the closing
of the store September 30, 2008.

For more information about the termination of Yahoo! Music Unlimited,
or the closure of the music store, please refer to our Frequently
Asked Questions.
"

Whatever it is, it's viral.

Aside from the obviously unbalanced special treatment internet radio
firms are being subjected to with the charges / song / listener, is
there a problem with how much we the people value such a service?

I was paying around 8 dollars a month for this service, which allowed
me access to a massive library of artists. I could pick "Flaming
Lips" for example, and either play entire albums, or "Top Songs"
or "Artist Fan Radio", the latter of which did a pretty good job of
dynamically mixing bands "like them"

However, if $8.00 / month isn't enough, what is our cap on how much
we'd consider paying?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=32148

21 Aug 2008 - 1:48pm
Thomas Green
2008

Sadly, I have only been using Pandora for the last few months. I really
love the notion of artist matching and I think their site, app does a
lot of great things from a UX perspective.

Can anyone recommend other sites like Pandora?

-Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Shaun Bergmann
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:30 AM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pandora to possibly shut down?

I started using "MusicMatch" 3 or 4 years ago and absolutely loved
it. The "artist match" functionality introduced me to many new
artists that I otherwise wouldn't have been aware of, and those
artists can directly thank my daily usage of MusicMatch for all of
the CD's and concert tickets I've actually payed for since then.

Well, MusicMatch in Canada came to a close sometime around 18 months
ago, and was apparently bought out or replaced by Yahoo Music Canada.
I payed for an account with Yahoo to continue using it.
It was mostly the same engine, although I found the "Artist Match
Radio" to not be quite as powerful.

This morning, I launched the desktop app and was presented with the
following:

"Important Notice: Yahoo! Music Unlimited Service Termination
This is a notice to inform you that Yahoo! Music Unlimited and Yahoo!
Music Unlimited To Go will no longer be available in Canada as of
September 30, 2008.

What does this mean for annual subscribers?
Annual subscribers with anniversary dates after May 1 will not be
renewed for service. Any annual subscribers that have a term that
extends beyond October 1 will receive a pro-rata refund on their
credit card. All users make should verify their billing information
is current in their Yahoo! Wallet

What does this mean for monthly subscribers?
Monthly subscribers will continue to be renewed through August 30,
with their service stopping on their anniversary date through
September 30.

If you have purchased tracks from the Yahoo! Music Unlimited store,
we recommend that you back them up to an audio CD before the closing
of the store September 30, 2008.

For more information about the termination of Yahoo! Music Unlimited,
or the closure of the music store, please refer to our Frequently
Asked Questions.
"

Whatever it is, it's viral.

Aside from the obviously unbalanced special treatment internet radio
firms are being subjected to with the charges / song / listener, is
there a problem with how much we the people value such a service?

I was paying around 8 dollars a month for this service, which allowed
me access to a massive library of artists. I could pick "Flaming
Lips" for example, and either play entire albums, or "Top Songs"
or "Artist Fan Radio", the latter of which did a pretty good job of
dynamically mixing bands "like them"

However, if $8.00 / month isn't enough, what is our cap on how much
we'd consider paying?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=32148

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

24 Aug 2008 - 4:32am
Håkan Reis
2006

My comment to this is an image, as we all know: Music died somewhere in the
70-80...

Regards // Håkan

---
Håkan Reis
Dotway AB

My blog || http://blog.reis.se
My company || http://dotway.se
Our conference || http://oredev.org - See you in 2008
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24 Aug 2008 - 12:15pm
Christopher Fahey
2005

On Aug 18, 2008, at 6:06 PM, Jared Spool wrote:
> Eventually, a new model will spring forth (probably one where
> individual artists circumvent the labels and their control
> structure) and the music will find its way to the consumer.

Absolutely. In fact, there are already several fantastic services very
much like what you're suggesting, allowing musicians to distribute
their music directly to consumers and get fairly paid for it. For now
they go through the major online music stores for downloading tracks
(iTunes, Amazon, Napster, Emusic, etc) rather than directly to
consumers via streaming media players.

An example of this service is http://www.tunecore.com -- you sign up,
pay a very small fee, and then create a band profile and upload your
tracks. Tunecore then creates an artist page for you in each of the
online music stores and puts your songs in the stores' catalogs for
people to buy and download. You simply watch the money roll in
directly to your account. You're paying for the service alone, never
relinquishing per-song royalty percentages, and the costs are
miniscule (we're talking under $20-30 *total* to get your album up).

If any of the major retailers were to offer a streaming service, then
Jared your model would reach fruition. Pandora, I imagine, is looking
at options to sell their entire technology to Apple or Emusic so it
can be integrated into a normal store as a new feature.

On Aug 18, 2008, at 8:31 PM, Jarod Tang wrote:
> Another example of well designed objects be killed by rights. As the
> founder said, the business model is broken by the rights/changes
> promotion.

This is something we UX designers often forget: That great products
are both killed *and* born out of purely business dealmaking,
regardless of the UX. It's sad to watch a business deal fall apart
and kill a great product like Pandora, but we have to remember that it
was a business deal that enabled the product to exist in the first
place. For example, as great as iTunes may be as a user experience,
its success has as much to do with Apple's ability to secure
profitable deals with the record labels as it does with the UX.
Without those advantageous deals (deals that, if I recall correctly,
were markedly better than many other music stores were able to
negotiate), the UX couldn't exist.

-Cf

Christopher Fahey
____________________________
Behavior
biz: http://www.behaviordesign.com
me: http://www.graphpaper.com

9 Sep 2008 - 12:12am
Jarod Tang
2007

> On Aug 18, 2008, at 8:31 PM, Jarod Tang wrote:
>>
>> Another example of well designed objects be killed by rights. As the
>> founder said, the business model is broken by the rights/changes
>> promotion.
>
> This is something we UX designers often forget: That great products are both
> killed *and* born out of purely business dealmaking, regardless of the UX.
> It's sad to watch a business deal fall apart and kill a great product like
> Pandora, but we have to remember that it was a business deal that enabled
> the product to exist in the first place. For example, as great as iTunes may
> be as a user experience, its success has as much to do with Apple's ability
> to secure profitable deals with the record labels as it does with the UX.
> Without those advantageous deals (deals that, if I recall correctly, were
> markedly better than many other music stores were able to negotiate), the UX
> couldn't exist.

I agree that the iTurns succeed because the have one of the greatest
sales in the world.
But there's still the paradox, if it's good for use like Pandora (and
people want it), why the business model broken?

Cheers,
-- Jarod
--
Designing for better life style.

http://jarodtang.spaces.live.com/
http://jarodtang.blogspot.com

10 Sep 2008 - 9:00am
gfrances@iconta...
2008

Unfortunately this seems to be a case where rights holders are failing to embrace new technology and new channels. I think eventually they will have to reinvent themselves (accompanied by much fanfare and chest thumping and comments about being "cutting edge").

The genie is out of the box - rights-holders can only keep stuffing it back in there for so long.

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