ThoughtPile.org

9 Dec 2008 - 3:45pm
5 years ago
21 replies
1011 reads
Rob Tannen
2006

I recommend taking a look at http://thoughtpile.org/ , Herman Miller's web site, for a visually remarkable interface. It's a crowd-sourcing/idea generation type of site.

Best Regards,

Rob Tannen, PhD
Director of Research

Comments

9 Dec 2008 - 3:59pm
SemanticWill
2007

I liked the content, I would have loved the interface more if there was
semantic richness to the nodes with something like a clustering/affinity for
related quotes based on context and other attributes - some combining the
content with a visualization like visual thesaurus, to show linked concepts.
Also when when node is in focus, click on another simply resets the graph,
but doesn't switch focus :-(

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Rob Tannen <rtannen at bresslergroup.com>wrote:

> I recommend taking a look at http://thoughtpile.org/ , Herman Miller's web
> site, for a visually remarkable interface. It's a crowd-sourcing/idea
> generation type of site.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rob Tannen, PhD
> Director of Research
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
aim: semanticwill
gtalk: semanticwill
twitter: semanticwill
skype: semanticwill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9 Dec 2008 - 4:36pm
Jarrod Lombardo
2008

>Also when when node is in focus, click on another simply
>resets the graph, but doesn't switch focus :-(
A click anywhere resets the graph. A click captured by a node (the
node displays as solid) does switch focus. I think only nodes deeper
than the current one can do this.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319

9 Dec 2008 - 7:08pm
Michael Andrews
2008

I find this silly. What am I supposed to click on? It is a treasure
hunt, which assumes I am interested in other people's spewing of
random thoughts to begin with -- which I am not.

Treasure hunts only work when there's a treasure to find. I just
see a bunch of orange circles with innane writing in them. Not very
interesting, even though I like orange.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319

9 Dec 2008 - 7:13pm
Steve Baty
2009

On the plus side, if you just let it sit there it's rather hypnotic. I had a
great nap after just a few minutes of watching.

2008/12/10 Michael Andrews <userinnovation1 at yahoo.com>

> I find this silly. What am I supposed to click on? It is a treasure
> hunt, which assumes I am interested in other people's spewing of
> random thoughts to begin with -- which I am not.
>
> Treasure hunts only work when there's a treasure to find. I just
> see a bunch of orange circles with innane writing in them. Not very
> interesting, even though I like orange.
>

--
Steve 'Doc' Baty | Principal Consultant | Meld Consulting | P: +61 417 061
292 | E: stevebaty at meld.com.au | Twitter: docbaty

Blog: http://docholdsfourth.blogspot.com
Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com
UX Book Club: http://uxbookclub.org/ - Read, discuss, connect.

10 Dec 2008 - 1:19am
Melvin Jay Kumar
2007

It all depends where you come from, Academia / Corporate / Product
development etc...etc...

Been in all three areas before, I would say both product and Corporate
will kill me if I ever suggested this. Definitely , it would score in
the coolness factor, but would be failure in all other aspects.

But as a exploratory tool , it would great....

Different circumstance, different needs , not applicable for all.

Regards,

Jay Kumar

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:45 AM, Rob Tannen <rtannen at bresslergroup.com> wrote:
> I recommend taking a look at http://thoughtpile.org/ , Herman Miller's web site, for a visually remarkable interface. It's a crowd-sourcing/idea generation type of site.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rob Tannen, PhD
> Director of Research
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

10 Dec 2008 - 1:49am
Janna DeVylder
2006

Well, there you go. I guess it wasn't designed with you in mind. :)
Just made me wonder if we could have some kind of visualization of IxDA
threads...a visual thesaurus of topics as Will mentioned re: this. Affinity
of topic, amount of interest/participation of the topic, over a span of
time... Certainly easier to engage with than simply searching the archives.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Michael Andrews
<userinnovation1 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> I find this silly. What am I supposed to click on? It is a treasure
> hunt, which assumes I am interested in other people's spewing of
> random thoughts to begin with -- which I am not.
>
>
>

10 Dec 2008 - 5:59am
Gavin Burke
2008

I see that the site is put together to promote the new Herman Miller
Embody chair.
I always find it strange how companies that are traditionally
associated with good design get the web so wrong. Another example is http://www.vitra.com
, looks really well but is a complete pain to navigate.

On 10 Dec 2008, at 06:49, Janna Hicks DeVylder wrote:

> Well, there you go. I guess it wasn't designed with you in mind. :)
> Just made me wonder if we could have some kind of visualization of
> IxDA
> threads...a visual thesaurus of topics as Will mentioned re: this.
> Affinity
> of topic, amount of interest/participation of the topic, over a span
> of
> time... Certainly easier to engage with than simply searching the
> archives.
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Michael Andrews
> <userinnovation1 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> I find this silly. What am I supposed to click on? It is a treasure
>> hunt, which assumes I am interested in other people's spewing of
>> random thoughts to begin with -- which I am not.
>>
>>

10 Dec 2008 - 6:08am
SemanticWill
2007

To Janna's point,
http://well-formed-data.net/experiments/konduit/

Remember - this example is not a corporate product - it's one really
talented grad student that has done some great work in dynamic information
visualization - but this is not a finished product, but it points to just
some nice additions - for instance,
look closely and you see histograms which show density of results over an
interval within a facet for the content as well as faceted navigation over
the content and dynamic filtering - this would be a really cool discussion
visualization with some ux and ria development resources behind it - his
other examples - like the nobel prize navigator are kewl too.

- w

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Janna Hicks DeVylder <janna at devylder.com>wrote:

> Well, there you go. I guess it wasn't designed with you in mind. :)
> Just made me wonder if we could have some kind of visualization of IxDA
> threads...a visual thesaurus of topics as Will mentioned re: this.
> Affinity
> of topic, amount of interest/participation of the topic, over a span of
> time... Certainly easier to engage with than simply searching the archives.
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Michael Andrews
> <userinnovation1 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > I find this silly. What am I supposed to click on? It is a treasure
> > hunt, which assumes I am interested in other people's spewing of
> > random thoughts to begin with -- which I am not.
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
aim: semanticwill
gtalk: semanticwill
twitter: semanticwill
skype: semanticwill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10 Dec 2008 - 8:07am
Rob Tannen
2006

Well I never said it was good, just "visually remarkable"...and
there have been quite a few remarks.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319

10 Dec 2008 - 3:23pm
Kevin Doyle
2007

Bleh. I thought the days of completely Flash sites were a thing of the
past. And the interaction with the site is poor -- the text fields
don't look like text fields, the buttons don't look like buttons
and the navigation just isn't intuitive.

The site does have a nice visual design look to it, but aesthetic is
only a fraction of good user experience design -- if people can't
intuitively use a site, what good does how cool it looks do?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319

10 Dec 2008 - 4:12pm
Mike Dunn
2008

Really? Have you ever been here? http://www.thefwa.com/ Do you have any
idea how high a demand there is for Actionscript programmers?
Oh, and as to your point about the UX- If everybody did the same thing all
the time instead of trying new methods to see if they might work, where does
that leave innovation? I think some elements don't work, but there's enough
interesting ideas here to warrant discussion.

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Kevin <kbdoyle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bleh. I thought the days of completely Flash sites were a thing of the
> past. And the interaction with the site is poor -- the text fields
> don't look like text fields, the buttons don't look like buttons
> and the navigation just isn't intuitive.
>
> The site does have a nice visual design look to it, but aesthetic is
> only a fraction of good user experience design -- if people can't
> intuitively use a site, what good does how cool it looks do?
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

--
Michael Dunn
FoolishStudios
www.foolishstudios.com

10 Dec 2008 - 4:25pm
Petteri Hiisilä
2004

gavin burke|FAW kirjoitti 10.12.2008 kello 12:59:

> I always find it strange how companies that are traditionally
> associated with good design get the web so wrong. Another example is http://www.vitra.com
> , looks really well but is a complete pain to navigate.

I've noticed the same. Traditional "form & function" thinking seems to
miss the concept of behavior completely. Everything looks and feels
perfect at first, but as soon as you interact with anything, the
attention to details drops from 100 to 0.

In Vitra's case it only took four clicks along the key paths to find a
state where nothing about the navigation made sense anymore: http://www.vitra.com/en-un/home/products/wiggle-side-chair/

You end up here, according to the navigation: "Welcome to Vitra /
Home / By Space / By Designer / By Space / By Designer / By Designer /
By Designer / Wiggle Side Chair & Side Chair".

Not so long ago there was a discussion about the lack of Bang &
Olufsen design process. Try to enjoy 3 minutes at their website,
speakers on. http://www.bang-olufsen.com/ (as seen 2008-12-10)

- Petteri

--
Petteri Hiisilä
palvelumuotoilija /
Senior Interaction Designer
iXDesign / +358505050123 /
petteri.hiisila at ixdesign.fi

"In this island, everything happens for a reason."
- John Locke, LOST

10 Dec 2008 - 4:39pm
Alex ONeal
2008

I'm with Michael. This may not fit the concept of universal design, but
there are things to be learned from it. I found it readily intuitive.
Perhaps it depends on the individual user's cognitive preference (spatial vs
linguistic, etc.).

Design innovation is like evolutional innovation. A broad variety of
possible models and approaches appear. Some become broadly useful and
disseminate across many geographies and contexts (cats, for example, exist
as predators in a wide variety of ecologies); some end up filling very
specific niches in limited ways (pandas and eucalyptus). Some fail
altogether.

Cultural and thought evolution occurs similarly. Memes (thought units, not
viral games) that are useful spread through a society and become adapted to
a broad variety of uses. When a designer chooses a format, that designer is
buying into a particular thought mem re: design. The OLPC designers applied
a systems psychology approach to their work, treating each child as a
knowledge worker, and the resulting OS interface is very different from the
pre-determined "desktop" metaphor to which we are used. See here:
http://laptop.org/en/laptop/interface/index.shtml

Thoughtpile is a promotional site, designed to provide fun, a sense of
engagement and participation, and perhaps even social utility. Not the worst
thought in the world, and a refreshing break from banner ad promos for
office furniture. Take what you find useful to your purpose, and leave the
rest :-)

Alex O'Neal
UX Manager/SN analysis

--
The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The next best time is
now.

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Michael Dunn <mike at foolishstudios.com>wrote:

> Really? Have you ever been here? http://www.thefwa.com/ Do you have any
> idea how high a demand there is for Actionscript programmers?
> Oh, and as to your point about the UX- If everybody did the same thing all
> the time instead of trying new methods to see if they might work, where
> does
> that leave innovation? I think some elements don't work, but there's
> enough
> interesting ideas here to warrant discussion.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Kevin <kbdoyle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bleh. I thought the days of completely Flash sites were a thing of the
> > past. And the interaction with the site is poor -- the text fields
> > don't look like text fields, the buttons don't look like buttons
> > and the navigation just isn't intuitive.
> >
> > The site does have a nice visual design look to it, but aesthetic is
> > only a fraction of good user experience design -- if people can't
> > intuitively use a site, what good does how cool it looks do?
> >
> >
> > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> > Posted from the new ixda.org
> > http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> > To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Dunn
> FoolishStudios
> www.foolishstudios.com
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

9 Dec 2008 - 10:12pm
Amy Silvers
2007

This was mostly my reaction too. The controls were not particularly
intuitive, and there was no connection between individuals' contributions
nor any information about who the contributors were and why I should be
interested in their thoughts. The whole thing seemed gimmicky, especially
when I came across plugs for Herman Miller products. It might work better
with a topic that lends itself less to platitudinous responses, but beyond
that, there isn't a lot of incentive to keep exploring or to go back to the
site.

2008/12/9 Michael Andrews <userinnovation1 at yahoo.com>

> I find this silly. What am I supposed to click on? It is a treasure
> hunt, which assumes I am interested in other people's spewing of
> random thoughts to begin with -- which I am not.
>
> Treasure hunts only work when there's a treasure to find. I just
> see a bunch of orange circles with innane writing in them. Not very
> interesting, even though I like orange.
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

11 Dec 2008 - 3:18am
Jonas Löwgren
2003

> Thoughtpile is a promotional site, designed to provide fun, a sense of
> engagement and participation, and perhaps even social utility. Not
> the worst
> thought in the world, and a refreshing break from banner ad promos for
> office furniture. Take what you find useful to your purpose, and
> leave the
> rest :-)

I don't have much to add, but I need to say I am completely with Alex
here.

So, going for a novel interaction concept sometimes leads to a result
that comes up short wrt execution of the details. I suppose that is
the case here.

But now that the Thoughtpile site is available, there is nothing to
stop a range of other designers from appropriating the key idea of
the interaction concept (zoomable quasi-3d with fixed-angle
orthogonal views, conceptually similar to early text visualization
work by David Small at MIT around 2000) and using it in other design
situations with much more attention to the details of the interaction.

Somebody may even create a totally "intuitive" interaction idiom
inspired by Thoughtpile, and we may learn that it has some inherent
benefits in terms of user experience when compared to more mainstream
approaches.

That hypothetical, and highly desirable, outcome is not likely to be
reached by a series of incremental improvements upon mainstream
approaches.

I guess my simplified conclusion is that the interaction design
community gains immediately in terms of knowledge when somebody
chooses to go for an innovative interaction concept, and the users
gain in the long run in terms of utility, pleasure and engagement if
the concept catches on and matures through appropriation and refinement.

Jonas Löwgren

16 Dec 2008 - 2:48pm
Kevin Doyle
2007

I'm not saying there isn't room for all-Flash sites, Michael, I just
thought that for a truly solid and accessible interface, Flash just
wasn't the way to go. The linked site above crashed my computer and
I have a pretty solid machine -- it hogged WAY too much RAM and took
a too long to download.

"Pretty" or "cool" or "desirable" doesn't make a site usable.
I used to be a total Flash advocate until I started designing sites
for wide audiences. Perhaps someday Flash will be completely
accessible and usable for everyone, but I'm not convinced it's
there yet.

BTW -- most of those highly-paid actionscripters don't have a iota
of usability training -- the site linked above and the link you
posted is proof of that. I got the hang of the site listed above
after a while (after rebooting my laptop twice), but for something
that's angled for commercial means an all-Flash site is just not
accessible for everyone.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319

16 Dec 2008 - 3:00pm
SemanticWill
2007

Keep wondering about this marketing website. And the topic won't seem
to die.
1. If we all adhered to rules, where would innovation come from. I am
not defending the site, usable is only one facet in the 7 facet
honeycomb of user experience, and it's importance is ONLY relative to
the context of the design, the goals of the business/stakeholders and
the users. I have no idea what those are - but usable is just one
attribute, not all 7, and even the most ardent, hardcore Jacob Nielson
that I have talked to is incapable of answer this one simple question:
"When reviewing an application, product, or website -- when do you/
your team deem it 'usable enough'"?
2. Ogilvy, one of the founders of modern advertising, had a book,
Ogilvy on Advertising, which is a classic. It also has a number of
rules regarding effective positioning, branding, and selling of a
product. If everyone in advertising followed that book religiously, we
would have never have had the "True" ads for Budweiser. Or the frogs.

Rules of thumb are good; heuristics, well applied, are useful, but
orthodoxy is an evil slave-master beating creativity and innovation
into desperate submission and it's your obligation to challenge him
and his bastard step-child, "design patterns."

:-)

Rock On!

~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
aim: semanticwill
gtalk: semanticwill
twitter: semanticwill
skype: semanticwill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Dec 16, 2008, at 11:48 AM, Kevin wrote:

> I'm not saying there isn't room for all-Flash sites, Michael, I just
> thought that for a truly solid and accessible interface, Flash just
> wasn't the way to go. The linked site above crashed my computer and
> I have a pretty solid machine -- it hogged WAY too much RAM and took
> a too long to download.
>
> "Pretty" or "cool" or "desirable" doesn't make a site usable.
> I used to be a total Flash advocate until I started designing sites
> for wide audiences. Perhaps someday Flash will be completely
> accessible and usable for everyone, but I'm not convinced it's
> there yet.
>
> BTW -- most of those highly-paid actionscripters don't have a iota
> of usability training -- the site linked above and the link you
> posted is proof of that. I got the hang of the site listed above
> after a while (after rebooting my laptop twice), but for something
> that's angled for commercial means an all-Flash site is just not
> accessible for everyone.
>
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

16 Dec 2008 - 3:10pm
SemanticWill
2007

Oh, right - and one more thing -

Perhaps we should have a completely different set of heuristics by
which we review and discuss sites clearly designed by a marketing/
advertising agency. We should not use HCI, usability heuristics, best
practices or notions of affordance or any other design principle found
in the literature and beaten into us by demanding sadist professors.

Think of it as - um - handicapping, fairness doctrine, or simply short-
bus special treatment. It's unfair to judge them using the same
measuring stick as real UX professionals; it's bad for their self-
esteem and we should be sensitive to that. Not all pigs are created
equal - some are more unequal than others - certainly the ones prone
to putting on more lipstick.

~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
aim: semanticwill
gtalk: semanticwill
twitter: semanticwill
skype: semanticwill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Dec 16, 2008, at 3:00 PM, Will Evans wrote:

> Keep wondering about this marketing website. And the topic won't
> seem to die.
> 1. If we all adhered to rules, where would innovation come from. I
> am not defending the site, usable is only one facet in the 7 facet
> honeycomb of user experience, and it's importance is ONLY relative
> to the context of the design, the goals of the business/stakeholders
> and the users. I have no idea what those are - but usable is just
> one attribute, not all 7, and even the most ardent, hardcore Jacob
> Nielson that I have talked to is incapable of answer this one simple
> question:
> "When reviewing an application, product, or website -- when do you/
> your team deem it 'usable enough'"?
> 2. Ogilvy, one of the founders of modern advertising, had a book,
> Ogilvy on Advertising, which is a classic. It also has a number of
> rules regarding effective positioning, branding, and selling of a
> product. If everyone in advertising followed that book religiously,
> we would have never have had the "True" ads for Budweiser. Or the
> frogs.
>
> Rules of thumb are good; heuristics, well applied, are useful, but
> orthodoxy is an evil slave-master beating creativity and innovation
> into desperate submission and it's your obligation to challenge him
> and his bastard step-child, "design patterns."
>
> :-)
>
> Rock On!
>
>
> ~ will
>
> "Where you innovate, how you innovate,
> and what you innovate are design problems"
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Will Evans | User Experience Architect
> tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
> aim: semanticwill
> gtalk: semanticwill
> twitter: semanticwill
> skype: semanticwill
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2008, at 11:48 AM, Kevin wrote:
>
>> I'm not saying there isn't room for all-Flash sites, Michael, I just
>> thought that for a truly solid and accessible interface, Flash just
>> wasn't the way to go. The linked site above crashed my computer and
>> I have a pretty solid machine -- it hogged WAY too much RAM and took
>> a too long to download.
>>
>> "Pretty" or "cool" or "desirable" doesn't make a site usable.
>> I used to be a total Flash advocate until I started designing sites
>> for wide audiences. Perhaps someday Flash will be completely
>> accessible and usable for everyone, but I'm not convinced it's
>> there yet.
>>
>> BTW -- most of those highly-paid actionscripters don't have a iota
>> of usability training -- the site linked above and the link you
>> posted is proof of that. I got the hang of the site listed above
>> after a while (after rebooting my laptop twice), but for something
>> that's angled for commercial means an all-Flash site is just not
>> accessible for everyone.
>>
>>
>>
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>> Posted from the new ixda.org
>> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
>> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
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16 Dec 2008 - 3:33pm
Steve Baty
2009

My first piece of feedback being rather more on the facetious side, I
thought - inspired by Will's ongoing commentary - that I might elucidate
somewhat.

I don't like the site. I don't want to search blindly through an
undifferentiated list of objects in the (possibly) vain hope of finding
something useful. The site works a little bit like that memory game you play
with pairs of symbols, except you never 'show' anything, and there's no
sense of completion; ever. The objects you have viewed don't even retain
some hint or clue as to what was in them after you close them; they just
rather unhelpfully turn themselves grey.

I'm all for 'fun' and 'play' in Web sites, but there are certain
characteristics that are required - like rewards, for example.

The interaction design isn't particularly unique - you see similar concepts
in use in mind mapping tools for example - so it doesn't even really qualify
in the 'innovation' stakes.

Overall I thought this was an idea that was released into the world with a
lot of thought and work still to do.

Steve

2008/12/17 Will Evans <wkevans4 at gmail.com>

> Oh, right - and one more thing -
>
> Perhaps we should have a completely different set of heuristics by which we
> review and discuss sites clearly designed by a marketing/advertising agency.
> We should not use HCI, usability heuristics, best practices or notions of
> affordance or any other design principle found in the literature and beaten
> into us by demanding sadist professors.
>
> Think of it as - um - handicapping, fairness doctrine, or simply short-bus
> special treatment. It's unfair to judge them using the same measuring stick
> as real UX professionals; it's bad for their self-esteem and we should be
> sensitive to that. Not all pigs are created equal - some are more unequal
> than others - certainly the ones prone to putting on more lipstick.
>
>
> ~ will
>
> "Where you innovate, how you innovate,
> and what you innovate are design problems"
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Will Evans | User Experience Architect
> tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
> aim: semanticwill
> gtalk: semanticwill
> twitter: semanticwill
> skype: semanticwill
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2008, at 3:00 PM, Will Evans wrote:
>
> Keep wondering about this marketing website. And the topic won't seem to
>> die.
>> 1. If we all adhered to rules, where would innovation come from. I am not
>> defending the site, usable is only one facet in the 7 facet honeycomb of
>> user experience, and it's importance is ONLY relative to the context of the
>> design, the goals of the business/stakeholders and the users. I have no idea
>> what those are - but usable is just one attribute, not all 7, and even the
>> most ardent, hardcore Jacob Nielson that I have talked to is incapable of
>> answer this one simple question:
>> "When reviewing an application, product, or website -- when do you/your
>> team deem it 'usable enough'"?
>> 2. Ogilvy, one of the founders of modern advertising, had a book, Ogilvy
>> on Advertising, which is a classic. It also has a number of rules regarding
>> effective positioning, branding, and selling of a product. If everyone in
>> advertising followed that book religiously, we would have never have had the
>> "True" ads for Budweiser. Or the frogs.
>>
>> Rules of thumb are good; heuristics, well applied, are useful, but
>> orthodoxy is an evil slave-master beating creativity and innovation into
>> desperate submission and it's your obligation to challenge him and his
>> bastard step-child, "design patterns."
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Rock On!
>>
>>
>> ~ will
>>
>> "Where you innovate, how you innovate,
>> and what you innovate are design problems"
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Will Evans | User Experience Architect
>> tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
>> aim: semanticwill
>> gtalk: semanticwill
>> twitter: semanticwill
>> skype: semanticwill
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2008, at 11:48 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>
>> I'm not saying there isn't room for all-Flash sites, Michael, I just
>>> thought that for a truly solid and accessible interface, Flash just
>>> wasn't the way to go. The linked site above crashed my computer and
>>> I have a pretty solid machine -- it hogged WAY too much RAM and took
>>> a too long to download.
>>>
>>> "Pretty" or "cool" or "desirable" doesn't make a site usable.
>>> I used to be a total Flash advocate until I started designing sites
>>> for wide audiences. Perhaps someday Flash will be completely
>>> accessible and usable for everyone, but I'm not convinced it's
>>> there yet.
>>>
>>> BTW -- most of those highly-paid actionscripters don't have a iota
>>> of usability training -- the site linked above and the link you
>>> posted is proof of that. I got the hang of the site listed above
>>> after a while (after rebooting my laptop twice), but for something
>>> that's angled for commercial means an all-Flash site is just not
>>> accessible for everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>> Posted from the new ixda.org
>>> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319
>>>
>>>
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>>
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--
Steve 'Doc' Baty | Principal Consultant | Meld Consulting | P: +61 417 061
292 | E: stevebaty at meld.com.au | Twitter: docbaty

Blog: http://docholdsfourth.blogspot.com
Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com
UX Book Club: http://uxbookclub.org/ - Read, discuss, connect.

16 Dec 2008 - 3:46pm
SemanticWill
2007

"Overall I thought this was an idea that was released into the world
with a lot of thought and work still to do."

Perhaps, but you know the agency that did it achieved their goal of
billing a wad of cash (my guess is over $100K), and I bet at least the
marketing stakeholders at the client were happy - it might even win
some award.

~ will

"Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel: +1.617.281.1281 | will at semanticfoundry.com
aim: semanticwill
gtalk: semanticwill
twitter: semanticwill
skype: semanticwill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Dec 16, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Steve Baty wrote:

> Overall I thought this was an idea that was released into the world
> with a lot of thought and work still to do.

18 Dec 2008 - 9:22am
Randy Harbin
2008

Overall, I think the interface and interactions of this concept
present interesting design functions combining social features and
Flash techniques. It is however not all that unique and higher
capacity, more dynamic interfaces, such as Ben fry%u2019s Organic
Interfaces at the media lab years ago pose more interesting questions
about interaction and form.

However, Will, I feel that to suggest that UX peeps working in the
"marketing/advertising agencies%u201D are less trained or should
approach there projects without adhering to UX principles and
heuristics is flat wrong. I have been waiting for a thread to discuss
the problems or marketing, selling and advertising in relation to UX
in general. I have worked in application and product design, but
have found the unique challenges such as the balance, visual design,
engagement, storytelling and branding in relation to usefulness and
necessity to be more interesting and ultimately more rewarding.

Thoughts?

Randy

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=36319

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