Where bounce off design concepts?

16 Mar 2009 - 7:25am
5 years ago
12 replies
1488 reads
Dominic Willems
2009

Having just registered with this community, I hope this query doesn't
come over as exceptionally ignorant, but I was wondering if there is a
place in here where designers bounce off ideas off each other wrt a
particular project they are working on.

This would include sketches and a lot of other imagery. Is there a
place where one could post these sketches and have a discussion about
them?

I'm particularly interested in this since I'm working in a rather
remote location, on my own, and want to prevent becoming the lone
creator of "the monster in the basement."

Thanks.

Comments

16 Mar 2009 - 7:55am
Fredrik Matheson
2005

As far as I know, there's no central location for posting images/sketches.
You are of course free to use Skitch.com, Flickr or any other solution to
host your stuff, and share a link here on the list.

- Fredrik

16 Mar 2009 - 8:03am
martinpolley
2007

How about The Wall of Deliverables <http://www.wallofdeliverables.com/>?
(Though that seems to be more for final, polished stuff...)

There is also an Interaction Designers group on
Flickr<http://www.flickr.com/groups/35034364676@N01/>
.

Cheers,

Martin Polley
Technical writer, interaction designer
+972 52 3864280
Twitter: martinpolley
<http://capcloud.com/>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Dominic Willems <dominique at domussoft.com>wrote:

> ...
>
> Is there a
> place where one could post these sketches and have a discussion about
> them?
>
> ...
>

16 Mar 2009 - 9:24am
Dave Malouf
2005

There is that site dedicated to wireframes, no? Might be good.

The wall of deliverables is an interesting idea.

Here at SCAD we are thinking of creating a work-in-progress gallery.

A few big issues that people have with galleries:
1) Intellectual Property--I can't share what really doesn't belong
to me.
2) Intellectual Property--I don't want to give away my best ideas
for free (not everyone is a believer that everything should be open
source, if anything)
3) Intellectual Property--I don't want to be tainted by seeing other
people's ideas so if an IP legal battle ensues I won't be hit with
"stealing" and only be hit with late comer independent generation
(at worst).

that being said, not everyone has these concerns and it would be easy
enough for anyone interested Johnny? to create a piece of their blog
for contributing Work-In-Progress.

Personally, I would never do it for the 1st 2 reasons above. I share
my thinking about IxD generally. I won't be sharing my design ideas
except when those ideas are directly connected to an open source
project.

For someone in remote situations, I think what you are really looking
for is a closed mentorship situation. A few key people you can go to
for review and advice regularly.

How remote are you? You might be surprise who is near you and what
I've seen work really well in "remote" locations is to create an
ongoing salon where people in the group commit to get together
regularly and each salon people get to present their work problems to
the group for critique. Again, the IP issues will be there but maybe
you can ask your organizations if you all aren't competing with each
other to do some legal gerrymandering to make it happen.

Anyway, just some thoughts on the small question and deeper meaning
behind it.

-- dave

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Posted from the new ixda.org
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16 Mar 2009 - 3:40pm
Den Serras
2009

I think this is an interesting idea. I suspect that most of the people
posting would be:

A) students or new designers working for small clients who aren't
going to ask for an NDA or whose sites are not unique enough to have
their designs be compromised by showing them, and

B) people wanting to show completed work - beyond public websites,
it's nearly impossible to get a broad-range idea of what's out
there for IxDA designers.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
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16 Mar 2009 - 6:13pm
Dave Cortright
2005

#1 is really the only concern for me, and it goes away pretty quickly once
something is shipped.

#2 I used to worry about, but after working in the industry for 15 years,
and specifically in the early stage startup/VC side of things for the last
year and a half, I've concluded that ideas are worth very little. It's only
an idea coupled with great execution that really counts. And that second
part (great execution) is even harder than coming up with great ideas.

While I'm no lawyer, I can't imagine #3 would be an issue for a design
posted to a public forum who's specific purpose is to share ideas with other
designers.

·Dave

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:24 AM, dave malouf <dave.ixd at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> A few big issues that people have with galleries:
> 1) Intellectual Property--I can't share what really doesn't belong
> to me.
> 2) Intellectual Property--I don't want to give away my best ideas
> for free (not everyone is a believer that everything should be open
> source, if anything)
> 3) Intellectual Property--I don't want to be tainted by seeing other
> people's ideas so if an IP legal battle ensues I won't be hit with
> "stealing" and only be hit with late comer independent generation
> (at worst).
>
>

16 Mar 2009 - 6:55pm
Katie Albers
2005

For your own protection, if for no other reason, you need to have a
more substantial understanding of these issues. You may or may not
agree on the level of importance that Dave assigns them in this
particular connection, but they are certainly necessary considerations.

1) When something is shipped, that's nice, but there are still reverse
engineering issues, copying issues as regards interaction, layout,
icons, etc. (Think Windows/Apple suits)

2) Well, ideas are neither copyrightable, nor patentable. Execution
is. But the little piece of stuff (hardware/software/interface/
interaction) may get picked up and used by someone else, and sometimes
that piece of stuff belongs to someone else. For example, just about
everything in DOS but the backslash belonged to CP/M -- as Paul Allen
will tell you, that's why they *used* the backslash. But that little
change hasn't been enough to sufficiently distinguish DOS from a wide
variety of other OSs which has led to a multitude of infighting and
lawsuits. At this point, I hate to think what would happen if someone
else's OS used the backslash as a similar part of the drive
designation and command line. It's also worth noting that most people
work on a "work for hire" basis -- so if they have thoughts that
relate to -- or would benefit -- their own work/company then
theoretically that idea belongs to the employer, to develop or not as
they may choose (Hollywood has contracts that limit how long a company
is allowed to consider something and if they don't act or they reject
it, the ownership returns to its originator(s). To the best of my
knowledge there's nothing similar in technology.)

3) Can you say "prior art"? It's routine now for patent officers to do
extensive Google (and other) searches for references to bits and
pieces of something presented for patenting. This isn't a problem
necessarily -- you could be asked to sign over your rights in the
diddly-bob controller -- but it does make things nightmarish for a
company pursuing a patent. Also, if you helped by being a bouncing
point when some aspect of an idea was turned into something real, you
could theoretically wind up entitled to own part of it.

This is obviously not a substantial explanation. But in general, it's
important to understand that Intellectual Property pops up in places
where you never thought to see it; and it has significant and far-
reaching effects. If you've got a lawyer friend who knows something
about IP, you could do worse than buying him dinner and picking his
brain.

kt

Katie Albers
Founder & Principal Consultant
FirstThought
User Experience Strategy & Project Management
310 356 7550
katie at firstthought.com

On Mar 16, 2009, at 4:13 PM, David Cortright wrote:

> #1 is really the only concern for me, and it goes away pretty
> quickly once
> something is shipped.
>
> #2 I used to worry about, but after working in the industry for 15
> years,
> and specifically in the early stage startup/VC side of things for
> the last
> year and a half, I've concluded that ideas are worth very little.
> It's only
> an idea coupled with great execution that really counts. And that
> second
> part (great execution) is even harder than coming up with great ideas.
>
> While I'm no lawyer, I can't imagine #3 would be an issue for a design
> posted to a public forum who's specific purpose is to share ideas
> with other
> designers.
>
> ·Dave
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:24 AM, dave malouf <dave.ixd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> A few big issues that people have with galleries:
>> 1) Intellectual Property--I can't share what really doesn't belong
>> to me.
>> 2) Intellectual Property--I don't want to give away my best ideas
>> for free (not everyone is a believer that everything should be open
>> source, if anything)
>> 3) Intellectual Property--I don't want to be tainted by seeing other
>> people's ideas so if an IP legal battle ensues I won't be hit with
>> "stealing" and only be hit with late comer independent generation
>> (at worst).
>>
>>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
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16 Mar 2009 - 9:49am
Dominic Willems
2009

First of all, thanks to all. This certainly is a rapid-response
community!

Skitch looks interesting, but I don't think one can embed HTML in
posts here, so it'd have to work with links, indeed. Sometimes
that's one extra step too many for fluent interaction, but I'm
being picky.

WallOfDeliverables looks interesting too. Can't find a sea of
postings, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

Both these solutions require an outside website, with a bit of
information scattering, and, as Dave mentioned, IP might be a reason
to keep it as constrained as possible.

Dave, you're quite on the mark with what I'm aiming at. A kind of
closed group of people one can bounce ideas off, but preferrably over
the net. I wouldn't want to miss a bright suggestion originating in
Auckland. ;)

A way to find some peers who are prepared to look at your sketches,
and an easy way to discuss them in a closed group online would be
nice, of course. I thought this place might be it, but I gather it is
geared more at the discussion of general design issues than field
cases.

Cheers,
Dom

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40063

16 Mar 2009 - 4:08pm
Dominic Willems
2009

I have posted a reply to all the posts quite some time ago, but have
never seen it appear. At the top I got a yellow band stating that the
post was being moderated.

Since nothing in the post would require censorship, obviously, I
wonder how much time it would take for it to appear?

Thx.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40063

17 Mar 2009 - 8:19am
Mat Atkinson
2008

We were thinking of introducing a public "Gallery" at ProofHQ so
that designers could share design work publicly and get feedback, but
when we bounced the idea off a few people IP and privacy issues came
up a lot.

The idea of a "membership only" peer review group is one we didn't
think of but could be done. Being able to post design work for review
by members of this forum only and using ProofHQ to provide the visual
mark-up, commenting and dicussion threads.

Would that work?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
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17 Mar 2009 - 11:09am
Jennifer Vignone
2008

What would the nature of this work for critique consist of?
How would you handle nondisclosure agreements that stipulated that you
could not show work to anyone outside of the company that the work is for?
I never met a consultant who didn't have to sign an NDA.
And, as an employee, the agreement to work for a firm usually has the same
policy, though it may not be stated outright as it is for a consultant.
That might impair the ability of people to participate.

Jennifer
Jennifer Vignone
User Experience Design
CIO Technology
245 Park Avenue, 10th Floor
New York, NY 10167
212-648-0827
jennifer.r.vignone at jpmorgan.com

Mat Atkinson <mat.atkinson at proofhq.com>
Sent by: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
03/17/2009 02:19 AM

To
discuss at ixda.org
cc

Subject
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Where bounce off design concepts?

We were thinking of introducing a public "Gallery" at ProofHQ so
that designers could share design work publicly and get feedback, but
when we bounced the idea off a few people IP and privacy issues came
up a lot.

The idea of a "membership only" peer review group is one we didn't
think of but could be done. Being able to post design work for review
by members of this forum only and using ProofHQ to provide the visual
mark-up, commenting and dicussion threads.

Would that work?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=40063

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17 Mar 2009 - 2:47pm
Katie Albers
2005

On Mar 17, 2009, at 9:09 AM, jennifer.r.vignone at jpmorgan.com wrote:

> What would the nature of this work for critique consist of?
> How would you handle nondisclosure agreements that stipulated that you
> could not show work to anyone outside of the company that the work
> is for?
> I never met a consultant who didn't have to sign an NDA.

Hi, Nice to meet you.

I don't *always* not have to sign an NDA, but I've worked with many
companies that didn't make me sign one and others in which we carved
out certain exclusions regarding my work and work product for such
uses as portfolio pieces, etc.

I don't remember signing NDAs as an employee, but I'm pretty sure I
didn't.

kt
> And, as an employee, the agreement to work for a firm usually has
> the same
> policy, though it may not be stated outright as it is for a
> consultant.
> That might impair the ability of people to participate.
>
> Jennifer
> Jennifer Vignone
> User Experience Design

Katie Albers
Founder & Principal Consultant
FirstThought
User Experience Strategy & Project Management
310 356 7550
katie at firstthought.com

17 Mar 2009 - 6:59pm
Chauncey Wilson
2007

Just as a side note, most employee agreements in the USA have
non-disclosure statements that vary in restrictiveness. Some even
restrict who you can work for if you quit (a few states like CA have
made non-competes illegal) - PA has a strong non-compete law so if you
live in PA you should read the non-compete especially carefully. I've
seen discussions about how companies can't enforce non-competes, but
unless they are illegal in a particular state, non-competes as long as
2 years hold up in court (side note - my wife is a senior software IP
attorney).

Chauncey

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Katie Albers <katie at firstthought.com> wrote:
> On Mar 17, 2009, at 9:09 AM, jennifer.r.vignone at jpmorgan.com wrote:
>
>> What would the nature of this work for critique consist of?
>> How would you handle nondisclosure agreements that stipulated that you
>> could not show work to anyone outside of the company that the work is for?
>> I never met a consultant who didn't have to sign an NDA.
>
> Hi, Nice to meet you.
>
> I don't *always* not have to sign an NDA, but I've worked with many
> companies that didn't make me sign one and others in which we carved out
> certain exclusions regarding my work and work product for such uses as
> portfolio pieces, etc.
>
> I don't remember signing NDAs as an employee, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.
>
> kt
>>
>> And, as an employee, the agreement to work for a firm usually has the same
>> policy, though it may not be stated outright as it is for a consultant.
>> That might impair the ability of people to participate.
>>
>> Jennifer
>> Jennifer Vignone
>> User Experience Design
>
>
> Katie Albers
> Founder & Principal Consultant
> FirstThought
> User Experience Strategy & Project Management
> 310 356 7550
> katie at firstthought.com
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

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