Content of Cooper vs Beck

10 Apr 2009 - 2:34am
5 years ago
12 replies
1995 reads
Apurv
2009

Hi all,

While looking interaction design in an agile context, I'm constantly
coming across a certain very landmark public discussion from 2004
between Alan Cooper and Kent Beck (of Extreme Programming) mentioned
across the web. It seems this was a very insightful discussion and I
am very curious to read it.

The original link to the content however is dead -
http://www.fawcette.com/interviews/beck_cooper/default.asp

Would anybody have a copy of it stored with them and be able to share
it with me? I'd be humongously grateful!

Here's the link to the Cooper vs Bech discussion on IXCD years ago -
http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=1079

Cheers,
Apurv

Comments

10 Apr 2009 - 2:53am
Yohan Creemers
2008

Did you try the Internet Archive Wayback Machine?

http://web.archive.org/web/20070206064455/http://www.fawcette.com/interviews
/beck_cooper/default.asp

- Yohan

10 Apr 2009 - 4:54am
Apurv
2009

Many thanks Yohan! Wonder why I didn't think of Wayback.

Thanks again... appreciate it :)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=41166

10 Apr 2009 - 8:25am
Dave Malouf
2005

I think that that article is dated, and I would disregard it for much
of its content and you should find the interviews and keynotes done
most recently with Alan Cooper @ Agile2008. Sorry no time for the
link.

Alan also speaks to Agile at Interaction 08 when he keynoted there.

-- dave

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=41166

11 Apr 2009 - 5:21am
dirtandrust
2008

http://www.cooper.com has a few videos on their blog regarding
integrating agile and Goal Directed Design, but I have yet to hear
anything more conclusive than, "let's all just get along".

The IxD team I'm on has decided regular "check-ins" are what we
need to work better with our Dev department, but they are more
Waterfall than Agile. I think communication is the key, as sappy as
that sounds. :)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=41166

11 Apr 2009 - 8:31am
Bruno Pinheiro
2008

Curiously, Cooper was one of the speakers on the closing keynote at
the Agile 2008 Conference. You can find his presentation at
http://www.cooper.com/journal/2008/08/alans_keynote_at_agile_2008.html
Regards,
Bruno
---
Bruno Pinheiro
Information Architect
brunopr at pobox.com
+55 21 91463921

> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Apurv <apurvpandit at gmail.com> wrote:
> (...) I'm constantly coming across a certain very landmark public discussion
> from 2004 between Alan Cooper and Kent Beck (of Extreme Programming)
> mentioned across the web. It seems this was a very insightful discussion
> and I am very curious to read it.

11 Apr 2009 - 3:23pm
dirtandrust
2008

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/ucd/agileuxd.html

Francis Norton sent me this (IxD at IBM). Definitely worth
mentioning. I wonder if this works with Waterfall process as well?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=41166

11 Apr 2009 - 5:42pm
Angel Marquez
2008

My thoughts on this are:1. The project is broken down into modular
components.
2. Everyone has their own branch they work out of.
3. Everyone does a checkout at the beginning of their workday.
4. When adding or committing do an svn message that is a standardized format
of what was added, fixed, changed etc..that launches a courtesy email to the
branch members of the log generated...
5. One person administers a triage merge and resolves conflicts amongst the
team The conflicts should be minimal if the initial structure is branched
out optimally.
6. Use the above as a rule of thumb for sub branching.

I prefer standardized methods for redundant tasks and communication for
exceptions. I like knowing where to look for the answer rather than the
asking tree and finding out nothing. Choose your 'communications'...it goes
like that, right.

I looked into tying bug tracking into the commit process and what I found is
GIT is the next step.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Nathaniel Flick <natobasso at gmail.com>wrote:

> http://www.cooper.com has a few videos on their blog regarding
> integrating agile and Goal Directed Design, but I have yet to hear
> anything more conclusive than, "let's all just get along".
>
> The IxD team I'm on has decided regular "check-ins" are what we
> need to work better with our Dev department, but they are more
> Waterfall than Agile. I think communication is the key, as sappy as
> that sounds. :)
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=41166
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

12 Apr 2009 - 11:29pm
Alan Cooper
2004

Apurv,

Please don't listen to this recording.

It was made a long time ago and it is NOT representative of anybody's
current thinking.

At the time, Kent Beck was pushing pure XP, which is decidedly NOT the
same thing as what is currently known as "agile". My opinions about XP
are NOT the same as my opinions about agile. In the years since that
recording was made, much has been learned by both the interaction design
community AND by the agile community about what the world of software
needs and how our two practitioner communities can provide it.

Kent's innovations such as pair programming and test driven
development are powerful and effective tools. When they are paired with
the agile concept that I call "responsible craftsmanship", the synergy
is fantastic. While Kent and I still have significant points of
departure in our thinking, I'd wager that he would not take the same
stance today that he did in 2004, and I know that I don't (would you?).
Over a year ago I asked Kent to record our "debate" anew, and while he
was game for doing it, the logistics never came together.

Agile is a significant and positive movement in the world of
technology, just as the movement for design has been. They are NOT AT
ALL MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE and I'm actively working with a broad range of
agilistas to find effective common ground.

Please don't dredge up old arguments and mis-apply them to new ideas.

Thanx,
Alan

__________
cooper | Product Design for a Digital World
Alan Cooper
alan at cooper.com | www.cooper.com
All information in this message is proprietary & confidential.
"Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, 'Certainly, I
can!' Then get busy and find out how to do it." - Theodore Roosevelt

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of
Apurv
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 5:35 PM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] Content of Cooper vs Beck

Hi all,

While looking interaction design in an agile context, I'm constantly
coming across a certain very landmark public discussion from 2004
between Alan Cooper and Kent Beck (of Extreme Programming) mentioned
across the web. It seems this was a very insightful discussion and I
am very curious to read it.

The original link to the content however is dead -
http://www.fawcette.com/interviews/beck_cooper/default.asp

Would anybody have a copy of it stored with them and be able to share
it with me? I'd be humongously grateful!

Here's the link to the Cooper vs Bech discussion on IXCD years ago -
http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=1079

Cheers,
Apurv
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help

13 Apr 2009 - 9:10am
Jared M. Spool
2003

On Apr 13, 2009, at 12:29 AM, Alan Cooper wrote:

> Please don't dredge up old arguments and mis-apply them to new ideas.

Ok. That completely frees up my schedule for today. I had the entire
day planned for dredging and misapplication. What should I do with it,
now?

:)

Jared

14 Apr 2009 - 1:34am
Angel Marquez
2008
14 Apr 2009 - 3:51am
James Page
2008

@Jared,
>I had the entire day planned for dredging and misapplication. What should I
do with it, now?
I sure that we can come up with other old arguments we can argue about. :)

All the best

James
http://blog.feralabs.com

2009/4/13 Jared Spool <jspool at uie.com>

>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 12:29 AM, Alan Cooper wrote:
>
> Please don't dredge up old arguments and mis-apply them to new ideas.
>>
>
> Ok. That completely frees up my schedule for today. I had the entire day
> planned for dredging and misapplication. What should I do with it, now?
>
> :)
>
> Jared
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>

14 Apr 2009 - 4:14am
Apurv
2009

Thanks for replying Alan. After reading the discussion between you and
Beck, I would not agree to it either. However, it is yet another bit
in adding to my understanding of why things are the way they are
today, and how they've evolved over time.

Are you or anybody in your team of Agilists blogging / writing papers
on the direction you're taking? I would be interested in reading it.

Meanwhile,

In my team I'm using elements of Behaviour Driven Development to
solve the problem of communicating nuances of interaction and
usability to the developers. This is the approach I'm following. We
are a large education website in India, and users for all our online
apps are the same. So the job of developing strong personas for the
apps has to be done once (and upgraded over time, with reduced
effort). We are developing on Ruby on Rails.

1. When developing online apps, I am communicating both functionality
and interaction issues in any webpage to the Backend Developer in form
of Cucumber code.

2. At the same time, I am creating strong prototypes in Axure for the
design elements for better communication to the Frontend Developer.

3. Over time, I'm looking to create a Design Pattern Library with a
strong foundation of generative and evaluative methods. Each design
pattern would be a combination of an Axure (or flash) prototype AND
the Cucumber behaviour file.

4. Subtle changes in Design elements peculiar to different
applications can be made by making changes to the Cucumber code.

5. Since the Developers have to pass all the tests I put in the
Cucumber code, they don't consider their work as finished until they
pass all tests, including usability issues identified by the UX team.

Cucumber - http://cukes.info/

Is anybody else using this / versions of this?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=41166

Syndicate content Get the feed