ADMIN: RE: RE: You decide

6 Jan 2005 - 2:11pm
9 years ago
4 replies
444 reads
Dave Malouf
2005

Chiming in here as Admin of the list ...

The below message is not acceptable for this list. I put up with a lot, but
demonizing design or designers in this way is not accessible. As owner and
administrator of the list and steering committee member and founder of the
group I have to say quite forcefully that whether we call ourselves
Interaction Architect or Interaction Designer, design and designing is a
legacy that this group advocates for and advances and any demonizing of it
is in contradiction to the purposes and goals of the list and the
organization supporting this list.

I'm totally open to discussions where Usability Professionals and other
people from disciplines not grounded in traditional design have a lot to
teach us designers, as much as we have to teach them, I would say. But this
needs to always be done in terms of visiting designers in a friendly manner,
and not one of biting flaming, judgement or patronizing.

If anyone in the future posts to the list with such flaming of design as a
discipline and of a generalization of the members of this list, I will first
place their subscription under moderation, and then if they proceed to
attempt to post in such a manner I will unsubscribe them and blacklist them
from being able to subscribe again.

I'm sorry to waste everyone's space here, but this list and community is
going so well (I get complimented often off list) and I will protect the
quality of the list as best I can.

Thank you for your attention.

-- dave

David Heller
dave (at) ixdg (dot) org
http://www.ixdg.org/

AIM: bolinhanyc \\ Y!: dave_ux \\ MSN: hippiefunk at hotmail.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> discuss-interactiondesigners.com-bounces at lists.interactiondesi
gners.com [mailto:discuss-interactiondesigners.com->
bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Steven Streight
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:29 PM
> To: discuss-interactiondesigners.com at lists.interactiondesigners.com
> Subject: [ID Discuss] RE: You decide
>
> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant
> quoted material.]
>
> Oh no. The one word that is even more imposing than
> "usability"--the dreaded designer nemesis, "accessibility"!
>
> How dogmatic and inflexible are those Accessibility Rules.
> How they thunder from Mount Sinai with terrifying flashes of
> code lightning.
>
> Now, all we have to do, I suppose, is find a straw man, some
> Accessibility Guru to despise and find fault with, then we
> can go back to Design As Usual.
>
> Or, we could act like we voluntarily see the wisdom in and
> embrace Accessibility Mandates, since we legally are bound to
> do so, but rail against Usability Suggestions until we are
> legally or professionally bound to embrace them.
>
> RSS feeders are freeing users from two major problems:
>
>
> 1. bad web site design that slows and complicates information foraging
>
> 2. time consumed going to each individual site to obtain information
>
> And yes, RSS feeders are definitely an example of explicit
> structural commands on a browser, whilst not being exactly
> what that "usability pundit/genius" was describing, it's in
> the same general field of web usage expediting.
>
> =====
> Steven Streight
> Web Usability Analyst/Content Writer
>
> http://www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com
> http://www.streightsite.blogspot.com
> http://www.arttestexplosion.blogspot.com
> EMAIL: vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> Interaction Design Discussion List
> discuss at ixdg.org
> --
> to change your options (unsubscribe or set digest):
> http://discuss.ixdg.org/
> --
> Questions: lists at ixdg.org
> --
> Announcement Online List (discussion list members get
> announcements already) http://subscribe-announce.ixdg.org/
> --
> http://ixdg.org/
>

Comments

6 Jan 2005 - 5:33pm
Lada Gorlenko
2004

DH> I'm totally open to discussions where Usability Professionals and other
DH> people from disciplines not grounded in traditional design have a lot to
DH> teach us designers, as much as we have to teach them, I would say. But this
DH> needs to always be done in terms of visiting designers in a friendly manner,
DH> and not one of biting flaming, judgement or patronizing.

Dave (and everyone else who treat spiky comments of 'usability
professionals' as biting flaming, judgmental or patronising):

The statement above is rather offensive to the (not so minuscule)
part of the list members whose job responsibilities equally include
*both* design *and* usability activities. Without dragging anyone
into the endless discussion of whether or not the activities should be
combined, that's the reality: many professionals would not (and simply
could not) pigeonhole themselves into either camp. Boundaries between
'us' and 'them' are not as bold as some may want to draw them.

I don't know what you mean by "people from disciplines not grounded in
traditional design". Does education in design count? Do years of
design experience? Publications? Courses we teach? Projects we do?
Who on earth are 'UCD professionals' then, if not the people who are
involved in all or most UCD phases? (Reminder: UCD aka User-Centred
Design consists of six phases: a) market definition; b) task analysis;
c) competitive evaluation; d) design (conceptual and physical);
e) evaluation and validation; f) benchmark assessment). Or is UCD not
an established and fairly regarded design process any longer?

Shoot me, I am not a proper designer, I am a UCD folk. I get my hands
dirty with building task models and running validation exercises,
whenever required. But please don't tell me I patronise 'white'
designers with my 'black' usability heritage, if I happened to
be a legal mulatto. If we ever get judgmental about design as
'usability professionals', that's because we are designers as well.
No one can take design from being 'our discipline', no matter what
purists think. Apologies for contaminating the blue blood of design
with bastard genes of 'related disciplines'.

It's a tremendously engaging list, and lots of thanks to you
personally and to all those who stir the group and keep the discussion
afloat. Unsubscribing rebels rightfully holding different views on
design will soon destroy the true diversity of the real-world design
community that happen to be present here.

Sincere regards,
Lada

6 Jan 2005 - 5:54pm
Dave Malouf
2005

Ok, guys,
I'm going to keep this short and sweet.

In general, ADMIN messages are not meant to be openly replied to. That's why
I append ADMIN to them. Public debate of the administration of the list is
inappropriate. I think for the most part I have shown that I do not run a
police state here. I'm quite fair and flexible. But I made a call. Disagree
w/ it if you will, write me privately. I ALWAYS read private message and
everyone who has written one, that required a response has gotten one;
usually simple appreciations, of which I get many go unresponded to.

It does no one any service, least of all the person who puts in the hours a
week to moderate and maintain this list a public flaily when in limit
portions (what? Once a quarter at most) he interjects some moderation to the
list.

Thank you for your future restraint and Lada, I will most likely respond to
you in private, but not right away.

Nighty nite everyone (for whom it is evening or night time).

-- dave

David Heller
dave (at) ixdg (dot) org
http://www.ixdg.org/

AIM: bolinhanyc \\ Y!: dave_ux \\ MSN: hippiefunk at hotmail.com

6 Jan 2005 - 6:43pm
Listera
2004

Lada Gorlenko:

> Dave (and everyone else who treat spiky comments of 'usability
> professionals' as biting flaming, judgmental or patronising):

Dave doesn't need my reinterpretation of what he might have intended with
his remarks and I haven't known him to be exclusionary, so I'll only speak
to your framing above.

When someone claims to "free users from slavery to individual site designs"
in the context of similarly predictable and periodic fatvas, it goes beyond
simple flame baiting. If others are going to idolize the source of that
piece of wisdom, they ought to be ready to face the criticism and, yes, also
the proportionate and justifiable ridicule it's likely to beget.

Some people here are familiar with my rants for years against the insane
notion of divvying up what's been historically a fairly holistic process, --
Design -- into ever narrower and ultimately self-defeating fiefdoms of
pseudo-specialties. I suspect we probably have a good measure of agreement
on that count.

What I am not amused about is the professional implications of "freeing
users from slavery to individual site designs". It broadcasts the message
that designers aren't equipped to deal with issues of architecture,
interaction, structure, usability, etc. It erects the Usability Professional
(whatever the hell that means) as a barrier between the designer and the
user. That's beyond pretentious. It amounts to a mandatory specialty tax on
the design process.

Are there any "bad" designers? Probably as many as there are incompetent,
quack Usability Professionals. We don't junk the entire field of usability
just because the websites of its self-proclaimed gurus happen to have some
laughable design and usability problems.

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

6 Jan 2005 - 7:19pm
Listera
2004

Sorry about the response to this thread, as I didn't get to read the Admin
post well after.

Ziya
Nullius in Verba

Syndicate content Get the feed