AJAX for mobile?

16 Nov 2005 - 9:39pm
8 years ago
12 replies
973 reads
Wendy Fischer
2004

Is anybody aware of any initiative around AJAX for WAP
or WAP 3.0 intiative?

With today's announcement of AJAX for Opera Platform,
it seems logical to me that AJAX for WAP is the next
logical step. Are there any initiatives around this?

-Wendy Fischer
Motricity

Comments

16 Nov 2005 - 9:57pm
Luis Silva
2005

Ajax as we know it today is a bit of a dream for WAP, because JavaScript is not implemented on mobile phones and the equivalent
WMLscript is very rustic and don't provide an equivalent to the XMLHttpRequest object, the component responsible for the AJAX
infrastructure.

Offcourse we can use J2ME to request and parse WebPages but that is not AJAX.

Regards

Luis

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Wendy
Fischer
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 12:09 PM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] AJAX for mobile?

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

Is anybody aware of any initiative around AJAX for WAP
or WAP 3.0 intiative?

With today's announcement of AJAX for Opera Platform,
it seems logical to me that AJAX for WAP is the next
logical step. Are there any initiatives around this?

-Wendy Fischer
Motricity
________________________________________________________________
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16 Nov 2005 - 10:10pm
Wendy Fischer
2004

AJAX is here for mobile phones already.

With the Opera Platform and mobile opera browser, AJAX can exist on Smartphones, Nokia Series 60 and Windows Mobile. Windows Mobile 5.0 supposedly supports AJAX.

Also, Moblet Instructional Language (MIL) is a declarative language that enables a developer to author a cross-platform mobile application (Moblets) using only XML, Script and XPath. Take a look at Mfoundry.com...

Luis Silva <luis_v_silva at exemail.com.au> wrote:
[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

Ajax as we know it today is a bit of a dream for WAP, because JavaScript is not implemented on mobile phones and the equivalent
WMLscript is very rustic and don't provide an equivalent to the XMLHttpRequest object, the component responsible for the AJAX
infrastructure.

Offcourse we can use J2ME to request and parse WebPages but that is not AJAX.

Regards

Luis

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Wendy
Fischer
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 12:09 PM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] AJAX for mobile?

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

Is anybody aware of any initiative around AJAX for WAP
or WAP 3.0 intiative?

With today's announcement of AJAX for Opera Platform,
it seems logical to me that AJAX for WAP is the next
logical step. Are there any initiatives around this?

-Wendy Fischer
Motricity
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
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________________________________________________________________
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16 Nov 2005 - 10:14pm
Ash Donaldson
2005

Wendy Fischer wrote:
> Is anybody aware of any initiative around AJAX for WAP
> or WAP 3.0 intiative?

I've always been curious - has WAP actually had any significant take-up
anywhere in the world? I only have anecdotal evidence from my friends and
some trials I¹ve been involved with for various telcos, but here in
Australia, it seems that 3G¹s even just a Œnovelty¹ for the first few of
weeks that people have it, then the phone is used, well, as a phone again
(except it¹s a big and cumbersome phone). WAP never made the cut.

Cheers,

Ash Donaldson, Senior Experience Architect

Experts in Human Centred Design

T +61 2 9908 1077 F +61 2 9908 3443 M 0414 55 9996

www.different.com.au

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16 Nov 2005 - 10:26pm
Luis Silva
2005

Yes, But you are talking about smartphones, PDAs and equivalents
they do not access the web through WAP rather they use HTTP and
HTTPS protocols.

I have heard about MIL before but we are talking about AJAX (Asynchronous Javascript and XML), like I said before you can request a
page and parse it using J2ME, and most of the mobile phones today are Java enabled, but that does not mean that they are AJAX
enabled.

_____

From: Wendy Fischer [mailto:erpdesigner at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 12:40 PM
To: Luis Silva; discuss at ixdg.org
Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] AJAX for mobile?

AJAX is here for mobile phones already.

With the Opera Platform and mobile opera browser, AJAX can exist on Smartphones, Nokia Series 60 and Windows Mobile. Windows Mobile
5.0 supposedly supports AJAX.

Also, Moblet Instructional Language (MIL) is a declarative language that enables a developer to author a cross-platform mobile
application (Moblets) using only XML, Script and XPath. Take a look at Mfoundry.com...

Luis Silva <luis_v_silva at exemail.com.au> wrote:

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

Ajax as we know it today is a bit of a dream for WAP, because JavaScript is not implemented on mobile phones and the equivalent
WMLscript is very rustic and don't provide an equivalent to the XMLHttpRequest object, the component responsible for the AJAX
infrastructure.

Offcourse we can use J2ME to request and parse WebPages but that is not AJAX.

Regards

Luis

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.interactiondesigners.com] On Behalf Of Wendy
Fischer
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2005 12:09 PM
To: discuss at ixda.org
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] AJAX for mobile?

[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

Is anybody aware of any initiative around AJAX for WAP
or WAP 3.0 intiative?

With today's announcement of AJAX for Opera Platform,
it seems logical to me that AJAX for WAP is the next
logical step. Are there any initiatives around this?

-Wendy Fischer
Motricity
________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
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17 Nov 2005 - 3:49am
rainer.simon at...
2005

IMO the most severe problem is that many mobile browsers do support JavaScript
to _some_ extent, but the level to which they support it varies wildly from
phone model to phone model.

Opera could indeed become sort of a defacto-standard for scripting support, but
has anyone actually tried to do an AJAX(-like) app on mobile Opera? I doubt
that it supports things like invisible inline-frames (which are always handy
for background client/server traffic). But I might be wrong (and secretly I
hope I am ;-)

> Ajax as we know it today is a bit of a dream for WAP, because JavaScript is
> not implemented on mobile phones and the equivalent
> WMLscript is very rustic and don't provide an equivalent to the
> XMLHttpRequest object, the component responsible for the AJAX
> infrastructure.
>
> Offcourse we can use J2ME to request and parse WebPages but that is not AJAX.
>
> Regards
>
> Luis

17 Nov 2005 - 6:27am
Wendy Fischer
2004

Again, it raises whether there should be a WAP 3.0 initiative, which potentially could include support fof AJAX. Mobile browsers would then be developed WAP 3.0 compatible. This of course would not affect the current generation of phones, but would be great for phones 2-5 years down the road.

Any support for a WAP 3.0 initiative?

rainer.simon at inso.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
[Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted material.]

IMO the most severe problem is that many mobile browsers do support JavaScript
to _some_ extent, but the level to which they support it varies wildly from
phone model to phone model.

Opera could indeed become sort of a defacto-standard for scripting support, but
has anyone actually tried to do an AJAX(-like) app on mobile Opera? I doubt
that it supports things like invisible inline-frames (which are always handy
for background client/server traffic). But I might be wrong (and secretly I
hope I am ;-)

> Ajax as we know it today is a bit of a dream for WAP, because JavaScript is
> not implemented on mobile phones and the equivalent
> WMLscript is very rustic and don't provide an equivalent to the
> XMLHttpRequest object, the component responsible for the AJAX
> infrastructure.
>
> Offcourse we can use J2ME to request and parse WebPages but that is not AJAX.
>
> Regards
>
> Luis

________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
(Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
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17 Nov 2005 - 6:34am
Tom Hume
2004

Ash

www.text.it has figures for WAP access in the UK. Basically: despite
the panning in the press, usage has grown steadily over the last 5
years (we've been running WAP services in this time and have seen
similar growth).

I've also stuck a graph of BBC WAP traffic growth (and some stats
from a recent talk by Chris Yanda, a BBC mobile guy) at http://
www.tomhume.org/2005/11/mwi_day_getting.html

On the subject of AJAX for mobile, France Telecom are doing some work
here. I hear tell that they're also using MiniMo for this; hmm,
perhaps an open-source way of getting web developers producing mobile
apps is a slap in the face to Macromedia?

Tom

On 17 Nov 2005, at 03:14, Ash Donaldson wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> Wendy Fischer wrote:
>> Is anybody aware of any initiative around AJAX for WAP
>> or WAP 3.0 intiative?
>
> I've always been curious - has WAP actually had any significant
> take-up
> anywhere in the world? I only have anecdotal evidence from my
> friends and
> some trials I’ve been involved with for various telcos, but here in
> Australia, it seems that 3G’s even just a ‘novelty’ for the first
> few of
> weeks that people have it, then the phone is used, well, as a phone
> again
> (except it’s a big and cumbersome phone). WAP never made the cut.

--
Future Platforms Ltd
e: Tom.Hume at futureplatforms.com
t: +44 (0) 870 0055924
m: +44 (0) 7971 781422
company: www.futureplatforms.com
personal: tomhume.org

17 Nov 2005 - 8:00am
rainer.simon at...
2005

> Any support for a WAP 3.0 initiative?

Personally, I would definitely support that :-D But I think it's more up to the
people from Openwave, Opera, Nokia and the likes.

I also think that (like Tom has pointed out) an "open" solution like AJAX could
get more developers active than commercial solutions. That said, I would really
be interested in the situation of SVG vs. Flash on mobiles (now that Macromedia
is out of the business...)

-Rainer

> Again, it raises whether there should be a WAP 3.0 initiative, which
> potentially could include support fof AJAX. Mobile browsers would then be
> developed WAP 3.0 compatible. This of course would not affect the current
> generation of phones, but would be great for phones 2-5 years down the road.

17 Nov 2005 - 8:31am
Wendy Fischer
2004

Again, it's all about distribution. Flashlite and
Flashcast have been around for a while, yet it's only
become available on phones in South Korean and Japan.

I don't know if we will see it in the US any time
soon. Does anybody from Macromedia have any insight
into this? People at work tell me SVG for Mobile is
dead.

It's all about distribution and what the carriers
want. The mobile ecosystem is one of the most
interdependent that I've ever seen, particularly in
the US.

I'll talk to my boss. He was the former Director of
PM for the Openwave Browser at Openwave. Perhaps he
knows.

--- rainer.simon at inso.tuwien.ac.at wrote:

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only
> relevant quoted material.]
>
> > Any support for a WAP 3.0 initiative?
>
> Personally, I would definitely support that :-D But
> I think it's more up to the
> people from Openwave, Opera, Nokia and the likes.
>
> I also think that (like Tom has pointed out) an
> "open" solution like AJAX could
> get more developers active than commercial
> solutions. That said, I would really
> be interested in the situation of SVG vs. Flash on
> mobiles (now that Macromedia
> is out of the business...)
>
> -Rainer
>
>
> > Again, it raises whether there should be a WAP 3.0
> initiative, which
> > potentially could include support fof AJAX.
> Mobile browsers would then be
> > developed WAP 3.0 compatible. This of course would
> not affect the current
> > generation of phones, but would be great for
> phones 2-5 years down the road.
>
________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association
> (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> (Un)Subscription Options ...
> http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
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> http://resources.ixda.org
>

17 Nov 2005 - 12:43pm
Barbara Ballard
2005

On Nov 16, 2005, at 8:39 PM, Wendy Fischer wrote:
> Is anybody aware of any initiative around AJAX for WAP
> or WAP 3.0 intiative?

The Open Mobile Alliance http://www.openmobilealliance.org/ has an
ECMAScript Mobile Profile definition. This has been implemented on
Openwave, Access, Nokia, and other browsers. I believe that this
profile is suitable for "normal" phones (doesn't require a stylus or
"smart" capabilities, although I'm no longer sure what that means)

Note that this significantly pre-dates Opera's announcement.

---
Barbara Ballard 1-785-838-3003
barbara at littlespringsdesign.com

17 Nov 2005 - 12:32pm
mojofat
2004

http://www.opera.com/products/mobile/platform/
Enabling AJAX applications on mobile phone
---------------
SVG for mobile is dead? SVG Tiny? I certainly hope not. Vector graphics
are the only hope for mobile as far as I can tell...bitmaps are just not
suited to this sort of development. Maybe this is simply a commentary on
the state of affairs in the U.S. In Europe, there seems to be more
widespread use of SVG Tiny.

Perhaps now that Macromedia..err, Adobe, is in bed with Qualcomm (to some
extent) we'll start seeing more extensive support for Flash...at least in
the BREW/CDMA world. Although I'm still skeptical that phones will have
the horsepower/battery life anytime soon to support lots of flash usage
(e.g., not just in the app. side, but natively supported in the phone).

-al

> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> material.]
>
> Again, it's all about distribution. Flashlite and
> Flashcast have been around for a while, yet it's only
> become available on phones in South Korean and Japan.
>
>
> I don't know if we will see it in the US any time
> soon. Does anybody from Macromedia have any insight
> into this? People at work tell me SVG for Mobile is
> dead.
>
> It's all about distribution and what the carriers
> want. The mobile ecosystem is one of the most
> interdependent that I've ever seen, particularly in
> the US.
>
> I'll talk to my boss. He was the former Director of
> PM for the Openwave Browser at Openwave. Perhaps he
> knows.
>
> --- rainer.simon at inso.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
>
>> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only
>> relevant quoted material.]
>>
>> > Any support for a WAP 3.0 initiative?
>>
>> Personally, I would definitely support that :-D But
>> I think it's more up to the
>> people from Openwave, Opera, Nokia and the likes.
>>
>> I also think that (like Tom has pointed out) an
>> "open" solution like AJAX could
>> get more developers active than commercial
>> solutions. That said, I would really
>> be interested in the situation of SVG vs. Flash on
>> mobiles (now that Macromedia
>> is out of the business...)
>>
>> -Rainer
>>
>>
>> > Again, it raises whether there should be a WAP 3.0
>> initiative, which
>> > potentially could include support fof AJAX.
>> Mobile browsers would then be
>> > developed WAP 3.0 compatible. This of course would
>> not affect the current
>> > generation of phones, but would be great for
>> phones 2-5 years down the road.
>>
> ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association
>> (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
>> (Un)Subscription Options ...
>> http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
>> Announcements List .........
>> http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
>> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
>> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
>> Resource Library ...........
>> http://resources.ixda.org
>>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss at ixda.org
> (Un)Subscription Options ... http://subscription-options.ixda.org/
> Announcements List ......... http://subscribe-announce.ixda.org/
> Questions .................. lists at ixda.org
> Home ....................... http://ixda.org/
> Resource Library ........... http://resources.ixda.org
>

17 Nov 2005 - 2:47pm
rainer.simon at...
2005

Though to my knowledge ECMAScript MP does not yet include the necessary features
for AJAX, such as the XMLHttpRequest or the invisible inline frame.

Quoting Barbara Ballard <barbara at littlespringsdesign.com>:

> The Open Mobile Alliance http://www.openmobilealliance.org/ has an
> ECMAScript Mobile Profile definition. This has been implemented on
> Openwave, Access, Nokia, and other browsers. I believe that this
> profile is suitable for "normal" phones (doesn't require a stylus or
> "smart" capabilities, although I'm no longer sure what that means)
>
> Note that this significantly pre-dates Opera's announcement.
>
> ---
> Barbara Ballard 1-785-838-3003
> barbara at littlespringsdesign.com

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