An open letter to the IxDA Community

29 Apr 2010 - 10:51pm
4 years ago
12 replies
2059 reads
Dave Malouf
2005

[I posted this originally on my blog, but had nice comments from people on Twitter and feel that w/ that acceptance it is OK to post here as well. It is more important to be here so a real conversation in the community can take place.]

The Interaction Design Association of today is not the IxDG or even InteractionDesigners.com of yesteryear. The organization has grown faster than the rising stock of Apple over the the short 7 years since Bruce “Tog” Tognazzini made his call to action that gave conception to this organization. This is my way to say that many of you may not know who I am, so I’m going to start with a short background bit.

In 2003 I was named David Heller. I was a UI Designer working in the Bay Area. I was a nobody who heard a call and saw it as an opportunity and to be honest a calling. For 6 years I was involved in birthing the organization through creating its first global conference. This is to say that I have a lot at stake with how IxDA continues to go and that it continues to go at all. Any success one might attribute to my career since IxDA’s founding I feel is directly related to the IxDA community. I see my future success not dependent on its existence, but definitely would be greatly aided.

As noted above the discussion list I helped found with some 600 people is now a community of practice of some 25,000+ (depending on how you do the math) with influence well beyond those numbers due to the magic of social networks. That’s a lot of growing in a very short time for a purely, 100% volunteer organization with about a $50k budget (outside of the conf) to manage infrastructure and other overhead. This all without membership fees (though we’d be no where without member and corporate financial support).

Ok, enough background …

This past February IxDA released an entire new platform for running its virtual, global community of practice. I have had limited involvement in the project (mostly in the early periods) across its 2 years in existence. IxDA did fund raising specifically for this project at various points and even allocated a large part of their profits from the conference to this project so that we can hire a dedicated technical team. Design was almost completely done by volunteers on their own time/dime.

This was NOT an easy decision for IxDA because of some of the founding “unsaid” principles of the organization that have remained in tact. The overriding principle of leaders of IxDA has been that we want the community to create the community. This is something that has been a huge part of what makes IxDA special (not unique by itself, but a contributor).

The reaction to this amazing effort has been really negative and actually toxic by way too many. Not a majority, for sure, but enough people have felt it acceptable to speak to the amazing people of this community with condescension and vitriol. For the most part I have remained out of it. I have my own issues w/ the site, but my history in the organization and my respect for those that accomplished this huge task has led me to silence (except through the official public channel of getsatisfaction.com; as is appopriate for any member of the community).

The most recent lashing out has touched a nerve for sure. The comment that seems to get under my skin the most is how can an organization dedicated to IxD put out such a bad user experience? In spirit, I’d agree with this comment, but it said with disdain and without any accountability or sense of responsibility from those who are saying it. This goes to the heart of the issue through. Which is to say, if you are not going to put up then shut up. Well, that’s what I feel on first glance.

Then I have to remember something. I have to remember that my reaction is from a person who started a 600 person discussion list and NOT a 25k member community of practice. The leaders of IxDA have said that the organization is not about consuming services and so there are no customers (paraphrasing). This is another statement I would love to agree with. Alas, I think I am finding that this is no longer possible given our scale. We can’t assume that 25,000 people in any sort of critical mass will be able to add energy to the organization as much as before.

But if that is true it has other consequences. We can’t assume that a group of volunteers on their own time/dime will be able to provide the same level of service as a pay for model. It is just not feasible to the level of scale we have achieved given the goals and needs of the organization long term. So this leaves us with 2 options:

1. Patience or Energy: Either work within the system (take the time to learn what the system is to be polite to those who created it) and wait for these things to change. This means having good faith that the people behind doing stuff have the best intentions and good heart. Or jump in and HELP and don’t be such a douchebag as to go into a friend’s house and tell them the food is bad w/o even volunteering to do the dishes!

2. Show me money or show me attention: We change the model of the organization to one that is more financially focused so that the level of quality we all want to achieve is what we can afford as an organization. This can mean having dues, or levels of membership (free & not-free). This can mean adding advertising to the site (we already have an ad model in place for the conference and many local events).

Doing this latter idea though is a major cultural shift for the organization. Our approachability and bottom-up culture would be facing challenges (not insurmountable) that we may not be prepared to face, or that would change the very nature of the organization in ways that we are not ready to live with (maybe never).

The point of this post is to address the anger and hostility. It is to get people to think before they speak with such anger about something that in the end is well not life & death and not even something you pay for and in most cases support.

I’d like to see a broader conversation about IxDA’s future. I know the board is having these conversations every day (when I say I know, it means I know the people and I know they are smart and engaged. I have no direct insights). But maybe we as a broader community need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation. Maybe we can bring back the long dead “working group” email list for people who are interested in this conversation.

I don’t have answers because I know I do not know all that is going on. What I do know is what I see and I don’t like what my community (I say mine the same way I would say about the area surrounding my home if a criminal came into my neighbors house and I would be defending that community) is shaping up to be and despite the amazing efforts of some amazing people I am noticing more slippage and it feels like we are falling down a slippery slope.

The board of IxDA and even the local leaders who build IxDA every day are only as good as the people who contribute to the community itself. So it is only right that we as contributing members take voice and engage!

Comments

30 Apr 2010 - 12:08am
Mike Dunn
2008

I, too, have been surprised at all of the vitriol, but don't let the vocal minority get you down. With a group as large as this there will always be some who just want to complain. This community is for all of us, not just them. Maybe those of us who do appreciate the effort being made here need to get more vocal.

30 Apr 2010 - 12:19am
Nathanael Boehm
2008

David,

I've previously expressed my positive impressions of the new site. Not perfect, but much better. I have to admit I don't come here often and rarely participate in discussions ... I've found it hard to know where to jump into the conversation; the culture of this place is a little hard to guage so for the most part I lurk and connect with my IxD peers through other means: blogs, Twitter etc.

As someone who has worked on several system replacement projects I know people are instinctively opposed to change ... not on the merits of the replacement or perceived loss of the system being replaced but merely through the act of change. It happens and you just grit your teeth and push through it till they adjust. There is simply no way to avoid it.

Secondly, we all know plumbers always have leaky taps. People generally find it hard to apply what their skills and knowledge on their home turf. Look at all the accessibility experts out there with inaccessible non-compliant websites. Doesn't mean they're bad at their job.

Thirdly, money is irrelevant ... and I know this from being involved in several social innovation projects. People don't care if they're paying you a lot of money or getting something absolutely for free. They still have high expectations and will complain regardless. I don't understand why, but I can testify that I've had to bear many such complaints and it has been particularly hard when I'm investing my own time unpaid for the betterment of civilisation. Once again, grit your teeth and push through it.

So this problem cannot be fixed through money. It will persist.

There are ways to try and influence a community to invoke a more positive mood that suppresses the haters, the flamers and those who just nitpick everything. I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment Design to Thrive by Tharon Howard that looks at such issues.

But in summary, do try and influence change but don't let this issue drag you down. It is just human nature - don't take it personally.

30 Apr 2010 - 12:47am
bjminihan
2010

Wow, thank you for bringing this up, David.  I just realized I've been following IxDA for four years, and had no idea the group wasn't much older than that (history isn't my strong suit)

Anyhoo...I understand your lament, and agree that folks should pause a bit before criticizing so vehemently without first understanding the amazing effort that goes into building a truly collaborative, active community of thousands, with very few issues (either technical, ethical or legal).  I've implemented a number of corporate portals and social network products and have rarely seen such a passionate community keep itself alive with just word-of-mouth marketing (that I'm aware of).  I know several VCs and corporate execs who would KILL for the kind of participation seen here every day.

On the other hand, I agree that while you have a point, you might enjoy the realization that of 25,000+/- members (at least several hundred active ones), the critics are very few, and from what I've read, somewhat new to the group, and perhaps unaware of the history, culture and volunteer effort.

Also, it might help to realize that we (designers, IA's, managers, executives, programmers, etc) fall into the same line of thinking into which our own project audiences fall:  that of a "hapless user".  Having been in all of those positions (usually simultaneously), I wish every designer or critic (in our industry) spent awhile in more technical shoes, and could see the number of trade-offs and compromises that every application of this sort requires.  I'll never say we should be satisfied with any technical solution (good design is never done), but it would help to have a little more empathy and understanding that even the most technical-minded colleague really does want our work to be both useful and used by their intended audiences.

On the volunteer note:  perhaps I haven't asked hard enough, but I've volunteered a few times, with no takers.  If you need anything specific, I'm more than happy to help in the programming or troubleshooting realm.

30 Apr 2010 - 8:30am
pnuschke
2007

Thank you Dave for writing about this. I did not realize that IxDA had grown so large. I only participate on IxDA occasionally, but I've been following it long enough to know that there is a relatively small group leading IxDA. And I appreciate the work that you all have put into it.
That said, given the size of the community, I think that your message is not going to reach the majority of people it needs to reach, because those people likely ignore the vast majority of messages posted on IxDA. To those occasional users, the recent transition was particularly harsh because a group that they barely participated in started spamming them and likely required 15 minutes or more of their time simply to straighten out the problems. 
So I think that asking those people to participate in fixing the community when they barely use it to begin with is likely not a good strategy. However, I think that the first part of option 1 (patience), as well as a healthy dose of tolerance (or ignoring the tone) of this user group is your best strategy. Of course, I am assuming that you are most of the way through the transition. If IxDA in fact needs to go through more transitions, then your fee model may be the better way to go to assure that you can meet the needs of the community. 
FWIW, I think that the discussion on the list, for whatever reason, has been vastly improved since the transition.
Paul




On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 1:32 AM, David Malouf <dave.ixd@gmail.com> wrote:

/[I posted this originally on my blog, but had nice comments from people on Twitter and feel that w/ that acceptance it is OK to post here as well. It is more important to be here so a real conversation in the community can take place.]/

/
The Interaction Design Association of today is not the IxDG or even InteractionDesigners.com of yesteryear. The organization has grown faster than the rising stock of Apple over the the short 7 years since Bruce “Tog” Tognazzini made his call to action [1] that gave conception to this organization. This is my way to say that many of you may not know who I am, so I’m going to start with a short background bit.

In 2003 I was named David Heller. I was a UI Designer working in the Bay Area. I was a nobody who heard a call and saw it as an opportunity and to be honest a calling. For 6 years I was involved in birthing the organization through creating its first global conference. This is to say that I have a lot at stake with how IxDA continues to go and that it continues to go at all. Any success one might attribute to my career since IxDA’s founding I feel is directly related to the IxDA community. I see my future success not dependent on its existence, but definitely would be greatly aided.

As noted above the discussion list I helped found with some 600 people is now a community of practice of some 25,000+ (depending on how you do the math) with influence well beyond those numbers due to the magic of social networks. That’s a lot of growing in a very short time for a purely, 100% volunteer organization with about a $50k budget (outside of the conf) to manage infrastructure and other overhead. This all without membership fees (though we’d be no where without member and corporate financial support).

Ok, enough background …

This past February IxDA released an entire new platform for running its virtual, global community of practice. I have had limited involvement in the project (mostly in the early periods) across its 2 years in existence. IxDA did fund raising specifically for this project at various points and even allocated a large part of their profits from the conference to this project so that we can hire a dedicated technical team. Design was almost completely done by volunteers on their own time/dime.

This was NOT an easy decision for IxDA because of some of the founding “unsaid” principles of the organization that have remained in tact. The overriding principle of leaders of IxDA has been that we want the community to create the community. This is something that has been a huge part of what makes IxDA special (not unique by itself, but a contributor).

The reaction to this amazing effort has been really negative and actually toxic by way too many. Not a majority, for sure, but enough people have felt it acceptable to speak to the amazing people of this community with condescension and vitriol. For the most part I have remained out of it. I have my own issues w/ the site, but my history in the organization and my respect for those that accomplished this huge task has led me to silence (except through the official public channel of getsatisfaction.com; as is appopriate for any member of the community).

The most recent lashing out has touched a nerve for sure. The comment that seems to get under my skin the most is how can an organization dedicated to IxD put out such a bad user experience? In spirit, I’d agree with this comment, but it said with disdain and without any accountability or sense of responsibility from those who are saying it. This goes to the heart of the issue through. Which is to say, if you are not going to put up then shut up. Well, that’s what I feel on first glance.

Then I have to remember something. I have to remember that my reaction is from a person who started a 600 person discussion list and NOT a 25k member community of practice. The leaders of IxDA have said that the organization is not about consuming services and so there are no customers (paraphrasing). This is another statement I would love to agree with. Alas, I think I am finding that this is no longer possible given our scale. We can’t assume that 25,000 people in any sort of critical mass will be able to add energy to the organization as much as before.

But if that is true it has other consequences. We can’t assume that a group of volunteers on their own time/dime will be able to provide the same level of service as a pay for model. It is just not feasible to the level of scale we have achieved given the goals and needs of the organization long term. So this leaves us with 2 options:

1. Patience or Energy: Either work within the system (take the time to learn what the system is to be polite to those who created it) and wait for these things to change. This means having good faith that the people behind doing stuff have the best intentions and good heart. Or jump in and HELP and don’t be such a douchebag as to go into a friend’s house and tell them the food is bad w/o even volunteering to do the dishes!

2. Show me money or show me attention: We change the model of the organization to one that is more financially focused so that the level of quality we all want to achieve is what we can afford as an organization. This can mean having dues, or levels of membership (free & not-free). This can mean adding advertising to the site (we already have an ad model in place for the conference and many local events).

Doing this latter idea though is a major cultural shift for the organization. Our approachability and bottom-up culture would be facing challenges (not insurmountable) that we may not be prepared to face, or that would change the very nature of the organization in ways that we are not ready to live with (maybe never).

The point of this post is to address the anger and hostility. It is to get people to think before they speak with such anger about something that in the end is well not life & death and not even something you pay for and in most cases support.

I’d like to see a broader conversation about IxDA’s future. I know the board is having these conversations every day (when I say I know, it means I know the people and I know they are smart and engaged. I have no direct insights). But maybe we as a broader community need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation. Maybe we can bring back the long dead “working group” email list for people who are interested in this conversation.

I don’t have answers because I know I do not know all that is going on. What I do know is what I see and I don’t like what my community (I say mine the same way I would say about the area surrounding my home if a criminal came into my neighbors house and I would be defending that community) is shaping up to be and despite the amazing efforts of some amazing people I am noticing more slippage and it feels like we are falling down a slippery slope.

The board of IxDA and even the local leaders who build IxDA every day are only as good as the people who contribute to the community itself. So it is only right that we as contributing members take voice and engage!


/

(((Please leave all content below this line)))
30 Apr 2010 - 11:43am
netwiz
2010

Some brief comments from me

1) In a community of 25,000 people, some people won't like what you've done, however good. Some will be rude.

2) Many people will have no emotional attachment to the group, and won't care how it came to be there. It's useful, they'll use it. If it goes away, they'll use something else.

3) Make use of feedback, even if it's rude. I have to do that every day for ba.com. It's still useful. Provide an easy feedback channel. Have a page where you tell people what's being fixed on the site.

4) It's not unreasonable for people to expect excellent interaction on this site. I, for example, have to pause each time I can't find the 'login' button after filling in my credentials; I wonder each time why there's a foreign language greeting; I don't understand what 'Groups' and 'Signups' are all about in my account section. I do wonder why the list management works in a way unlike most other lists I've joined. These are things that can be ignored or fixed, and it's fair to wonder what the test and feedback mechanism is.

5) Personally, I very much appreciate this list. There's a high volume of good quality conversation. I appreciate the time and effort that people have put into it (once I'm informed of that). I really do. I don't have time to get involved, but I can give some of my time to provide some helpful feedback, politely, if anyone wants it.

...I'm posting this from the site, rather than by email, and I'm a little puzzled by the 'save' or 'preview' buttons (that are the same colour, close together). The heading above the input form is 'post a new comment' so shouldn't there be a 'post now' button? Will 'save' post it, or will it save it for later editing? I'll try 'preview' and see if there's a 'post' from there.

Nick

30 Apr 2010 - 1:58pm
chrischandler
2008

Hey Dave,

First of all, thank you to all the people who have done the hard work to provide us freeloaders with all the bounty that is the IxDA. Seriously. You should know that you are appreciated deeply and are doing good in the world and adding tremendous value to the community.

I'm sure suffering the slings and arrows of outraged ux people isn't fun, but it shouldn't be that much of a surprise either: let's face it, creative people are complainers by nature!! We don't like how things 'are' because we can always imagine how they 'could have been' done better. To borrow language from the neurodiveristy community -- being unsatisified is not something we do, it is something we are. Frankly, I think the phrase "and get nothing but grief for it" should be included in any call for volunteers for this (and many others) organization!!

Community is generally a great thing, but being connected in a community also means being connected to people you may not enjoy being connected to. I always think of the analogy of a small town when we talk about community. Sure, everyone has a great time at the picnics and the barn raisings provide inspirational vignettes of the human spirit, but there are also the town gossips, the busy-bodies, and the mean-old-man-johnsons of every community.

An important value of this community is being able to speak one's mind, -- and you are certainly an exemplar -- and if people do that in a way that isn't always pleasant, above board, intellectually honest and morally courageous, well, we really should be grateful that they do speak and share and that most of the time it's all good. I might even go so far as to say that imagining a "perfect community" is usually a step along the path to a very dark place.

-cc

 

 

1 May 2010 - 6:12pm
Elizabeth Bacon
2003

Hi Dave, et al.,

You wrote:

I’d like to see a broader conversation about IxDA’s future. I know the board is having these conversations every day (when I say I know, it means I know the people and I know they are smart and engaged. I have no direct insights). But maybe we as a broader community need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation. Maybe we can bring back the long dead “working group” email list for people who are interested in this conversation.

I don’t have answers because I know I do not know all that is going on. What I do know is what I see and I don’t like what my community (I say mine the same way I would say about the area surrounding my home if a criminal came into my neighbors house and I would be defending that community) is shaping up to be and despite the amazing efforts of some amazing people I am noticing more slippage and it feels like we are falling down a slippery slope.

The board of IxDA and even the local leaders who build IxDA every day are only as good as the people who contribute to the community itself. So it is only right that we as contributing members take voice and engage!

And this is where I totally am in sync with you. Having just stepped back from being on the Board, being on the most inside you could be of the inside of the Conan project, it feels like night and day in terms of what I know now about what's going on. There's not as much transparency and communication as I want there to be or think there needs to be for this organization to thrive. Do we have the funds to keep the infrastructure on track technically/functionally? And then, how can the community contribute now that the platform is in place? Volunteer management and a process for harnessing people's energies is really lacking. Even in this thread Bryan says he's ready to volunteer on technical stuff and hasn't gotten takers.

To all the points about the negative feedback, actually I've been really pleased by the generally positive responses. Yes it hurts when the criticism is so ill-informed or dead obvious. There are definitely some serious usability issues right now with the mailing list and I feel for the anger that's out there on some people's parts. Frankly what I did was I opted out of emails awhile ago; I am participating online and waiting for the emails to be more useful. (Meanwhile I hate the fact that even an online posting delivers OOO emails when I have totally unsubscribed from emails—aargh!) Anyways, long story short, I'm not taking it personally. Like you and most folks here, I just wanna see IxDA be righteous! I too wonder, would an IxDA membership model that's fee-based, opt-in instead of default-in as it is today, help deliver a more well-equipped, dealing organization?

Cheers,
Liz

 

 

2 May 2010 - 5:20pm
James Page
2008

Conan (the new Content Management System) is like a young dog that has not been properly trained yet, and it needs some training. But does that mean there is a need to change the whole organisation?
This discussion about charging for membership, or making membership opt-in has come about because of the implementation of a Content Management System. 
Is that not letting the technology dictate the organisation, instead of the organisation dictate the technology? Is not the whole point of good usability that the technology is polite and acts a servant, instead of a brash person dictating how the organisation is run? 
I believe in teaching Conan some manners we should look at Liz Bacon's idea of using Mailman instead of the Drupal-based mailing list functionality. It may be worth looking at using the people that have volunteered to implement it, to keep the decision a zero cost issue. I think the skill set is here on this list. 
All the best
James
On 2 May 2010 00:29, Elizabeth Bacon <lists@elizabethbacon.com> wrote:

Hi Dave, et al.,

You wrote:

/
I’d like to see a broader conversation about IxDA’s
future. I know the board is having these conversations every day (when I
say I know, it means I know the people and I know they are smart and
engaged. I have no direct insights). But maybe we as a broader community
need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation. Maybe we
can bring back the long dead “working group” email list for people who
are interested in this conversation.

I don’t have answers because I
know I do not know all that is going on. What I do know is what I see
and I don’t like what my community (I say mine the same way I would say
about the area surrounding my home if a criminal came into my neighbors
house and I would be defending that community) is shaping up to be and
despite the amazing efforts of some amazing people I am noticing more
slippage and it feels like we are falling down a slippery slope.

The
board of IxDA and even the local leaders who build IxDA every day are
only as good as the people who contribute to the community itself. So it
is only right that we as contributing members take voice and engage!


/

And this is where I totally am in sync with you. Having just stepped back from being on the Board, being on the most inside you could be of the inside of the Conan project, it feels like night and day in terms of what I know now about what's going on. There's not as much transparency and communication as I want there to be or think there needs to be for this organization to thrive. Do we have the funds to keep the infrastructure on track technically/functionally? And then, how can the community contribute now that the platform is in place? Volunteer management and a process for harnessing people's energies is really lacking. Even in this thread Bryan says he's ready to volunteer on technical stuff and hasn't gotten takers.

To all the points about the negative feedback, actually I've been really pleased by the generally positive responses. Yes it hurts when the criticism is so ill-informed or dead obvious. There are definitely some serious usability issues right now with the mailing list and I feel for the anger that's out there on some people's parts. Frankly what /I/ did was I opted out of emails awhile ago; I am participating online and waiting for the emails to be more useful. (Meanwhile I hate the fact that even an online posting delivers OOO emails when I have totally unsubscribed from emails—aargh!) Anyways, long story short, I'm not taking it personally. Like you and most folks here, I just wanna see IxDA be righteous! I too wonder, would an IxDA membership model that's fee-based, opt-in instead of default-in as it is today, help deliver a more well-equipped, dealing organization?

Cheers,
Liz

 

 

(((Please leave all content below this l
2 May 2010 - 6:35pm
Dave Malouf
2005

I'd like to focus here a bit. I think people are getting confused between the catalyst of the conversation vs. the topic of the conversation.

Let's forget about conan or even hostile tones. My main thesis is that due to our scale as an organization it is time for the organization to re-evaluate its community model. This does not mean giving up our core value proposition. But it means analyzing it against the realities of our core community.

Something that came across my view today is a conversation about Zappos.com. The CEO of that arguably amazing organization changed its mission statement 7 times in less than 10 years. Refining to meet the needs of its workers and its customers. There is nothing wrong w/ re-evaluating these issues. I'm just suggesting that we do it in public, out in the open the way we used to " back in the day!"

So I'd like to suggest the creation of a "group" (using our new conan toy) that people can join if they are interested in such conversation. I know that IAI did this and might still have it and from what i've heard there has been some success with it. It would be nice to engage and broader constituency than we normally do on topics such as this.

-- dave

2 May 2010 - 8:30pm
HannahG
2010

Please.make.it.stop.

On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 4:41 PM, David Malouf <dave.ixd@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd like to focus here a bit. I think people are getting confused between the catalyst of the conversation vs. the topic of the conversation.

Let's forget about conan or even hostile tones. My main thesis is that due to our scale as an organization it is time for the organization to re-evaluate its community model. This does not mean giving up our core value proposition. But it means analyzing it against the realities of our core community.

Something that came across my view today is a conversation about Zappos.com. The CEO of that arguably amazing organization changed its mission statement 7 times in less than 10 years. Refining to meet the needs of its workers and its customers. There is nothing wrong w/ re-evaluating these issues. I'm just suggesting that we do it in public, out in the open the way we used to " back in the day!"

So I'd like to suggest the creation of a "group" (using our new conan toy) that people can join if they are interested in such conversation. I know that IAI did this and might still have it and from what i've heard there has been some success with it. It would be nice to engage and broader constituency than we normally do on topics such as this.

-- dave

(
21 May 2010 - 2:20pm
craigmaxey
2010

I recently returned to my IxDA account to make some changes to my Notification settings.   Soon I was wondering how to channel some interaction experience frustration.  Some comments/observations:

- This thread seemed to touch on the issue (is there a better one that I should join?)
- It seems inherently important that a site/organization focused on the concept of interaction design should reflect good practice
- Budget constraints are to be expected.  What is the best process for insuring continuous experience improvement in the
  context of small budget? 
- How can I help?
- I would hope that a quality interaction design experience would be part of any IxDA mission statement/practice going forward.
Craig
23 May 2010 - 11:33am
Dave Malouf
2005

Craig, if you have specific issues w/ the site, there is a getsatisfaction.com site. You can get to there by going to "Help" from the secondary navigation under discussion.

As for how else you can help. just raise a hand and put some sweat forward.

-- dave

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