Discussion Archive: January 2004

29 Jan 2004 - 4:52pm
12 years ago
3 replies
Andrew Otwell

Re: aesthetics and objectivity

Bob Baxley wrote:

> I definitely take exception to this statement on two fronts. First, visual
> design is NOT subjective -- unless it's decoration, in which case it's not
> design.

29 Jan 2004 - 4:46pm
Andrei Herasimchuk

Quick Note

Quick note to everyone.

I am notoriously bad about proofing my messages. I can see after
reading back through my messages I'm doing "classic Andrei," which is
to say trailing off sentences, leaving out whole words, and not fixing
the numerous grammar and typographical errors. My apologies.

I tend to do a lot in the day, and cram email in between meetings and
other projects, so I tend to overlook these flaws more often than I
should. One of these days, I'll learn how to type correctly. (I type
using only five fingers, three on the left hand and two on the right.

29 Jan 2004 - 4:44pm
12 years ago
1 reply
Andrew Otwell

re: aesthetics and objectivity (was :: How to Get Into ... Best Job Title)

On Jan 29, 2004, at 10:52 AM, Todd R.Warfel wrote:

>> I would agree that Google is hardly a UI masterpiece from a visual
>> design perspective...

Why should it be? How and why might you change it?

One could say that Google, like eBay (and arguably like George W. Bush)
has a brand that explicitly minimizes sophistication and complexity.
Appearing not just straightforward, but a bit unsophisticated may in
fact be appealing to many users who equate subtle design with
"fancyness" or "highbrow".


29 Jan 2004 - 3:03pm
Todd Warfel

Re: Is Design an Objective Pursuit?

Part of me wishes visual design wasn't typically seen as so subjective.
But then again, part of me enjoys that.

I don't honestly believe that its entirely one or the other, but a
balance of both. And that's not to give a copout answer. My background
is in art - visual design. But my education is in English and Cognitive
Psych. My PhD work is in Information Science (Communications/HCI). So,
for me personally, I can see both the aesthetic arguments and harder,
scientific evidence arguments. It's a tough balance.

29 Jan 2004 - 2:22pm

: interface vs interaction [was: How to Get Into ... Best Job Title]

This discussion, which seems to have hit a soft spot with many of us,
reminded me of something that I'm sure will put a smile on your face.
It is from around 4 years ago, when it was trendy in the design community to
oppose Jakob "Useit" Nielsen.

29 Jan 2004 - 2:10pm
12 years ago
1 reply
Bob Baxley

Is Design an Objective Pursuit?


So you and I are hearing different stories about Apple. My sources
however are a bit out of date so I'll defer to yours. Either way, I
think we can agree that the determining factor in Apple's success is
the creative vision and leadership of Mr. Jobs.

As for visual design, while I agree that it is generally equated with
style, that doesn't mean it has to be. It is up to us as a community to
educate our clients and consumers about the real value and meaning of

29 Jan 2004 - 1:30pm
12 years ago
3 replies
Ted Booth

Re: Education formal or informal or both

On the other hand, the benefits of 'going the academic' path as a way
to get into interaction design:
1) you get structured exposure to a wide range of concepts, techniques
and principles in a very short amount of time
2) you are challenged to learn, produce and explore in a much more wide
ranging and rigorous manner than in the commercial world
3) and, depending on your institution of choice, it can be *very*based
in practice, in the doing of the work, as well as knowing the theory
behind it
4) plus, you leave with a formal degree which generally gives you a leg
up over other job-seeker

29 Jan 2004 - 12:11pm
a h andrew

Re: Menu caption design (Sandeep Jain)

Another option is to have a history window similar to
Photoshop's. Keep the menu name short (Either "Undo"
or "Undo Move"), but in the history window have a
longer description "Undo Move Zone A", using the
guidelines Jim outline below for the best terminology.

To "argue this with your engineering manager", you
might try to pointing to existing applications. Remind
them of how they don't like to see non-standard menu
names, or how unwieldy (or helpful!) a particular name
might be. Try to point to specific resources that back
you up.

29 Jan 2004 - 11:03am
12 years ago
1 reply
Dave Malouf

Education formal or informal or both (was RE: RE: How to Get Into Interaction Design?)

I was wondering what peoople felt about academic vs. non-academic based
career approaches. Not is one better than the others, but it is so easy to
say "go to this school", but for those who are less academically oriented
what are the suggestions? And if the suggestions aren't as strong what could
we be doing as an organization to make such options more viable?

If I wanted to learn how to make/design a watch I don't think the first path
would be to go to school.

29 Jan 2004 - 10:42am
Todd Warfel

Mutli-Inter-Disciplinary [was: How to Get Into ... Best Job Title]

To summarize so far:

1) (insert your favorite adjective here) Designers should have a
knowledge and appreciation for visual/graphical design, interaction
design, and information architecture
2) They should not favor one over the other, as that could bias the
product, which in turn would become flawed
3) There are individuals capable of great visual, interaction, and
information architecture, or any combination of these.